- Caption: Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima
- Caption: V-J Day in Times Square
- Sign: Cavemen
- Larisa: I feel a little empty inside, having peaked so early in my career as photographer.
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![[0460] Joe Rosenthal, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Larisa Korolev](/comics/2013-03-04-0460-joe-rosenthal-alfred-eisenstaedt-larisa-korolev.png "[0460] Joe Rosenthal, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Larisa Korolev")
[0460] Joe Rosenthal, Alfred Eisenstaedt, Larisa Korolev
└ posted on Monday, 4 March 2013, by Novil
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Sandra and Woo by Oliver Knörzer is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. See the About page for details.
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The sad part is the third photo is more genuine than the first two, in more ways than one.
*Iwo Jima flag raising was the second flag raised, not the first – they took down the first to raise a bigger one and get a picture
*V-J Day in Times Square was actually a sailor grabbing the closest woman he could find and raping her mouth with his
*those girls really are cavemen on the inside
I wouldn’t call a photograph of cavemen your peak just yet.
Zoey: “Me comb hair with stone, this stone comb good comb. Me hair fabulous not?”
Michelle: “Fabulous! zug zug! I use club but me only got headache!”
Larissa: “Sigh, let me introduce fire for them…. with this flamethrower.”
Onihikage wrote:
Yeah. Years later the sailor and the lady was invited for an interview and she told them that was a surprise and non consent kiss. The photo was part of a series of photos. Several photos before that one depict her trying to push him back but he’s too strong. When asked to re-enact the scene she refused.
Peaked? I doubt it. She can follow it up with “Cavegirls on Rampage”, “Cavegirls Taught Lesson in Law and Order”, “Cavegirls Being Ejected from Palace of Civilization” and her later series “Cavegirls’ Further Failures to Evolve.” >:=)>
To everyone take the protagonist’s side in this prejudice I’d like to bring to your attention that what you are doing is a form of bullying. While even fictional characters; this belief that as a gang what you are doing is right, is wrong. Even if Zoey herself is a stereotypical ‘popular’ bully; an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and it takes a more amazing person to not give in, to not fall prey.
Sure, you may think being nasty to a fictional character isn’t hurting anyone; but its the principle of the matter that stems into real life.
@ Drone:
There’s nothing wrong with giving a flatworm a hard time.
@ Drone:
It’s Larisa we’re speaking of…
Bullying a bully is just another way to apply the saying “fighting fire with fire”. And she surely knows it.
Boy did those two girls set themselves up for that.
Three photos noteworthy for both their composition and their controversies alike!
@ Petah-Petah:
‘Course it is! Where else are you gonna find a modern photo of actual living cavemen?
It won’t be the peak of her future in photography until she catches those cavemen inventing the wheel by pushing a boulder off a peak. 😛
Larissa had best be careful, or those cavemen may make her join the club.
@ Onihikage:
It reminds me of the battle of he smithsonian movie
Not so early, she didn’t photographed a velociraptor..
@ Sambo:
Bedrock?
Soo, does Larisa have a Russian accent or American? Just trying to get a clear picture here lol
@ MastroPazzo:
“Fighting fire with fire”
Just don’t let Larissa overhear you – she might take it literally…
At the moment, what Larissa’s done in the museum is little more than harmless pranks (especially the two annotations – the photo is just serendipitous composition) – she’s probably unlikely to take it (much) further once back home.
@ Dravkon:
As much as i’d really like her to have a Russian accent (and a high tenor speaking voice – such a lovely combination!) I somehow get the feeling she’s second-generation, and has probably purged her accent (if she even had one in the first place.)
Besides, I tend to view things literally in comics – if a character is to be “heard” with an accent, that accent will be transliterated.
Just because she’s of Russian extraction doesn’t mean she has an accent tho – I’m of Scot extraction, but I don’t have a burr unless I really want to.
WRT “bullying” – While it could be construed as such, I think Sandra is probably too guleless to carry the point any further, and Larisa would be likely to show the restraint that Zoe &co (Larisa? Restraint?) generally do not.
Although Zoe does set herself up as a high-priority target…
Let’s not go and read too much into this – it is, after all, a comic. And a delightful one!
@ mittfh:
Are you sure?
Doesn’t “Russian Revenge” tell something to you? 🙂
That time she denied fire, next time she could allow it to spread… Better for Zoey to not piss off Larisa, if she doesn’t know how to play with fire.
So they pretty much don’t check for cameras at this museum?
@Onihikage and AckAckAck
You might be over simplifying the kiss. According to the nurse shown in the picture, she had decided to let him kiss her, even though he did catch her by surprise, because he had fought in the war.
Also:
I’m actually starting to feel sorry for Zoey (I think that’s her name), other than a few insults aimed at the main characters early on in the comic, she hasn’t really been that malicious. It’s starting to look like Sandy and Larissa are the actual bullies.
@ MastroPazzo:
As I stated in my original comment, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Or in your case fighting fire with fire leaves the whole world in ashes.
Its a shame my my comment received so many t-downs. Here I was hoping I was talking to intellectual individuals and not hedonists who are simply seeking instant gratification without thinking of the consequences.
If I’m wrong then please burn me at the stake, but I don’t see any good that can come from bullying a bully.
@ Drone:
And no one else sees the harm in a series of ink blots that resemble a scenario where a young girls takes advantage of a joke too well set up to miss.
Also, calling us all compulsive hedonists and implying that we’re stupid or thoughtless isn’t going to win you any support. In fact, it leaves everyone else feeling justified in their reasoning and thinking that you’re just a self-righteous prick. Now I don’t think you are, but you’re going to have a lot of difficulty convincing everyone else, especially if you continue with the insults.
Additionally, insults are a common tactic of bullying, so you may want to think carefully before you type, or you may take this mildly ironic situation to the extreme.
They seem so Happy in their natural habitat. Let’s not disturb them.
@ Extraintelligence:
Hedonism does not imply a lack of intelligence; although I could imply a lack of thoughtfulness, especially if the consequences of the action cause untended harm. But in principle it implies a desire of instant gratification, and in this case a banding together in order to get a cheap laugh at the expense of someone else; and as I’ve repeatedly stated, while this is all fictional, the mentality is still one to be shyd away from.
Excuse me if I play devil’s advocate in this situation; but if I’m am one of the few people who doesn’t jump on the bandwagon of the protagonist in this particular situation, then personally I see myself as someone who can think outside of the mob mentality and question what the majority deems to be “okay”.
Also in terms of me being a bully. While the comment rules stipulate that insults at other users is not permitted, I believe that is directed more towards the individuals who’s vocabulary stems as far as “Lol, noob. Your mother”, while I am trying to argue my views on a more intellectual level. Granted “hedonist” is extreme, it is merely a standing point for what I was trying to imply (a desire for instant gratification). Lastly in examining your irony, I believe my “bullying” far outshines that of the people who disagree with me. Mostly because they are a much bigger group and as such they believe themselves to be right because they are surrounded by people who agree with them. In saying that I would like to state that I will not back down from my views simply because a majority disagrees with me, if that were the case in real life then very few world changing events would have occurred in history; one modern day example is the fight for gay rights, simply because a majority deems it to be wrong does not mean it is true.
I really wish there was an edit feature for this site. Rereading what I’ve wrote makes my Grammar Nazi eyes bleed T_T
Is it wrong of me to feel so amused at the third panel?
@ Drone:
So basiy, you are saying that the people that have bullied me my whole life, and that continue to bully me, do not deserve what is coming to them? That they do not deserve punishment for making someone feel depressed and useless? That the person whose life has been ruined by them deserves justice to be served? Bullies deserve all the bad things that come to them, end of story.
@ Drone:
You specifically say “I was hoping I was dealing with intellectual individuals, not etc.”
The only alternative to a person with an intellect is a person without an intellect, i.e, and idiot. By saying that we are not intellectual, you insinuate that we are stupid.
Taking the picture itself is not bullying. It is simply a moment that was too good to miss. To be honest, I would have cracked up if someone had taken a picture of me like that, given that it was so absurdly well timed.
On the other hand, if Larissa were to reveal that picture in a public way, then it would transcend into bullying. I would try to prevent such a thing from happening, but I can’t because I am not a comic strip character and she is.
I agree with you wholeheartedly that bullying is wrong, but you must remember that this is a comic, and not meant to be taken too seriously. Similarly, I would never condone smashing someone on the head with a hammer, but I still enjoy Loony Toons, who often make use of such gags.
The point is, we are all fairly mature individuals here, and we’re capable of distinguishing between reality and fiction. We’re not going to agree with some kind of behavior just because our favorite comic character does it. You should have more faith in the people in these comments; I highly doubt any of them will go out and encourage kids to be bullies.
Also, don’t try to justify your rude words by implying that everyone else is being an even bigger bully. speakings that your message from the beginning was “Bullying is wrong, no matter who’s doing it to whom,” it makes your statement not only more ironic, but also hypocritical.
@ illeatyourself:
It won’t be the peak of her career until she gets them inventing fire.
(Perhaps she could help them, with her flamethrower)
@ Extraintelligence:
Obviously you’ve taken the word intellectual very literally in this sense. Where as I was using it to explain a lack of individual thinking and rather the mentality to simply jump on the bandwagon without giving thought to it first. The core of being a non-intellectual is not that one lacks intelligence, but rather that one is contempt to think within the box and accept everything they receive at face value. But who am I to argue with how you interpret something, even if I supplied ample reiteration of the issue of group mentalities within my posts.
I am not referring to this specific comic (0460), but rather (0456) since it is apparent that everyone in the comment section was simply jumping on the bandwagon and finding humor in someone else’s misfortune (or in this case teasing). Simply put this strip in particular is continuing with the themes of the previous one (0456) and as such has relevance to what I am trying to bring to light.
Your example of Looney Tunes isn’t substantial, since the world of those characters is clearly defined as not being in sync with reality (the lack of any real injury from said hammer to the head, or the flexibility with the laws of gravity, a characters survival of huge falls and even minimal damage being sustained from gunfire). Which is greatly contrasted by this world’s established laws which greatly mirror ours, except for one outstanding factor (talking animals). However this comparison is useless anyway because you are talking about something physical while I am dealing with something that is emotional; and I’m sure a great many people would agree with me that emotional pain is far greater than that of physical pain. Also one could easily get into how shows like Looney Tunes has affected the children of it’s generation, but that is a completely different topic. While yes, I agree that simply because one finds a bit of forbidden joy in being nasty to a fictional character does not mean they will teach these values to others; however my issue is the group mentality, that so long as everyone else is doing it, it’s OK (which it is not).
In looking at your last point you’ve obviously started to put words into my mouth, because not once did I say everyone else is being a “bigger bully”. Also if you reread it carefully I quoted your defining me as a bully and not once have a stated that I am participating in bullying nor that others on this site are bullying me. Please, while right now I am trying to argue with you in a
intellectualdirect manner to what you are putting forward, I implore you to stop twisting what I say so that it can fit into whatever you wish to say.“It leaves everyone else feeling justified in their reasoning and thinking that you’re just a self-righteous prick”, within this one quote (from you), you are simply reaffirming everything I have tried to bring to light.
1. “everyone else” Group mentality.
2 “feeling justified” The belief that because as a group they believe it, therefore it must be right.
3. “you’re a self-righteous prick” While it can easily be argued that these are your own personal feelings and not that of others, it is still the act of name calling.
While I don’t want to say that you should be reflecting on your own personal irony, or hypocrisy. I would like you to realize that you Sir/Madam are an instigator.
P.S. By now I hope you’re well aware of my core principles that I was utilizing when using the words: Hedonist and non-intellectual (although that last part is not a direct quote and merely a speculation on your part) and you are fully entitled to speculate (but I suggest you Google that word just so you are well aware of what speculation actually means). But please I implore you to now show me how I may have taken “self-righteous prick” out of context, because I would truly love for you to show me how that is not a blatant insult.
@ John:
Sorry John, I completely forgot to address you in my previous post. Please look carefully at what I wrote and do not misinterpret what I’ve said. I have not said that bullies do not deserve misfortune. In fact simply participating in the act of bullying does mean that you “deserve” misfortune. But that is not to say that now you should start fighting fire with fire; because when you do that the vicious circle of bullying becomes just that: a circle, that has no end. When in fact one should rely on the fact that a bullies poor social skills and hateful mentality will result in their life being miserable as they grow older.
If you personally believe that revenge is the correct answer then I implore you to seek counseling to talk about what is troubling you. Why? Because honestly I myself was also bullied in Highschool, but being someone who is able to separate my emotions from my rational thinking. I was able to realize that no matter how much that person TOLD me who I was, it didn’t make it true. The moment you let someone else make you feel depressed and useless, you have lost control of who you are and have surrendered to what they think; especially if that person has no importance in your life. But it seems to me as if you have given them importance, given them status when you should disregard them.
The main issue I see with your point is that it is bordering on vigilantism; which, in extreme cases, results in horrific school shootings. These individuals are disturbed and are pressure-cookers that could not handle it anymore and burst. So please, once again, if YOU feel this way then find someone to talk to. Even if it is me via the internet, while I know it is a poor option for personally connecting with someone. If you feel like there is absolutely NO ONE to talk to in your life, then do not hesitate to ask.
@ Drone:
I’m going to ignore the walls of emotional and citational text and skip straight to the point:
It’s a comic strip. Fiction favors the good guys. When an antagonist plays a prank, it’s bullying and mean. When a protagonist plays a prank, it’s funny and celebratory.
To take an antagonist’s side (in the comic Zoey is already well known for teasing people, therefore she is an antagonist) in stories where the antagonizing is done via prank or insult (mostly feel-good comedymovies set in some kind of school, like Revenge of the Nerds) isn’t being fair, rational, or more sensitive, it’s contradictory to the entire point of there being antagonists and protagonists in the first place. It’s a story, not real life.
@ Drone:
The bullying done was not only in high school, but in every grade of elementary as well. I spent many years without a single friend, and when I did have any friends it was often just one at a time and only for 1 and a half years at the most. And trust me, I tried for my whole life to be nice about it, to be patient and forgiving. I tried giving those people hundreds of second chances. I tried to ignore them, I tried to let things go. I have tried every possible passive way to deal with them, but nothing has worked. These people, these monsters, have blackened my soul, and if they go any further, they are going to get the living shit beaten out of them. And about your point about the shootings, I don’t have anything that could cause that much harm, and I wouldn’t be able to get my hands on a weapon like that anyways. Anyways, it would be so much more satisfying to use my fists instead.
Ps. The people at school aren’t the only bullies.
@ Neospector:
Okay, I’m going to ignore the fat paragraph of clearly Wikipedia’d information and get to the point: Right now you are thinking on the most basic of levels, and taking what you receive at face value. Also it’s obvious that your only engagement with protagonists and antagonists is with Hollywood archetypes, who set these roles into rigid boxes that cannot mold or change. Fiction does not “favour” the good guy, merely your understanding of fiction does that. If you were the slightest bit aware of other forms of fiction outside of the mainstream you would not be saying those words.
Also I am well aware this is a comic. If that has not been stated on multiple occasions than I honestly do not know how to further bring you to that realization.
Lastly, you think NOT following the protagonist makes it contradictory, but that is because you have been conditioned to believe that, especially with mainstream media that feeds you those same cookie cutter stories where the protagonist wins. But getting much deeper into it is how exactly the writing conditions you to side with one character and not the other, without giving you the facts from both sides, but rather revealing the antagonist to you in the most stereotypical manner.
Trust me; if I knew as much about protagonists and antagonists as you seem to, I wouldn’t have made a comment from the beginning.
Lastly I want to leave you with an example that will hopefully make you think about the strict protagonist and antagonist stereotypes. Lets say in school there was this bully who used to tease you about your hair, or your shoes or whatever. Now in your mind you see that bully as the bad guy. But for the bully, he goes home and his dad beats him and swears at him, every single day. That bully is simply a victim lashing out at someone he perceives to be weaker than him, because he doesn’t know any better, because he is too young or afraid to call the police and have them take his dad away forever. But you do not know this, all you see is a bully who makes you feel bad; and therefore HE is the bad guy.
The moment you stop asking: why? Is the day you stop being an individual and you join the rest of the mindless drones who do and say as their master commands.
@ John:
I know bullies in school are not the only ones, I talk about those ones however because they are the most common. I am glad to hear that you do not have access to firearms, because from what I can tell you do desire revenge in some form. But I implore you to realize that revenge is a never ending cycle, if you seek revenge for being wronged then someone else could just as easily seek revenge against you for wronging the people who wronged you. Yes, in your mind you may believe it is justice, but to that other person they will simply see what you saw.
@ Drone:
dude, you talk too much and think too highly of your own opinions.
A comic is meant to entertain a group of individuals, if you don’t like the material then watch a different website or don’t view that particular comic.
Fiction favors who the author wants it to favor, in this case Larissa and Sandy. Just because we find this comic funny does not mean we condone bullying. Don’t try to force your opinions onto a crowd, it will only backfire on you to the point where you are outcast or worse. If you have issues with other people then confront them instead of making a scene out of it. Case in point, when Zoey yells that she isn’t descended from flatworms, she made a scene instead of taking it down and finding who put it up and talking to them about it.
Bullying is made easy by people who react to it, it is never one sided. People who are bullies tend to do it because they want to see a reaction, if you don’t give them one then they usually go away. If it comes down to physical abuse then you should contact the proper authorities and have them take care of it. Just know that words mean nothing and action is what is needed in every situation in life. Sure words have their uses but action takes less time and effort than a well thought out speech and can sometimes resolve the problem more effectively in the long run.
Onihikage wrote:
Nobody remembers who were the infantrymen who raised the original flag… nobody remembers who reenacted the scene.
Even the famous video of last storm of Reichstag by soviet infantrymen is reenacted… original assault was led at night.
Noone remembers the poor bloody infantrymen by name… and hell so many of them have given their lives that those few in the end can do this. It does not matter which of them did it in the end… if thousands of their comrades didn´t pay with their lives they would not have gotten that far.
Infantry does the real job of figting war and usually gets no glory anywhere. And since we haven´t figered out how to win a war without them, let them have at least those few moments of glory. Navy, airforce, armor… those can obliderate… but only infantry can occupy and hold. The most thankless job in all wars. Also the one that is uterlly necessary.
@ eldestdawn:
Actualy… I can´t think of any situation… both in greater history of mankind, and my life… where words had any effect at all.
@ eldestdawn:
You raise a lot of obvious points, which makes you seem like someone who has yet to really get to the crux of the matter. But putting that aside, you are making a comment because you feel you should. Thus do not try and belittle me because I do the same.
“You talk too much and think too highly of your own opinions”, are you saying a should not think highly of my opinions, are you telling me my opinions are not worthy? If I stop doing that then unfortunately I will become the only person on the planet who is like that, because everyone (stupid or intelligent. Even you) thinks highly of their own opinions. I apologize if I talk too much, but I would personally prefer to state my opinion clearly so that there is no room for speculation.
However your views seem to condone bias. So good on you.
On your last point, please be very careful with how you believe action speaks loader than words. That kind of mentality is what causes wars rather than peace discussions. Yes that is an extreme example, but you get the just of how what you are saying is a subjective view, that you haven’t quite examined all the possibilities on. In dealing with how I, personally, am merely talking and not acting: you have no idea who I am or what I do, so well done for speculating that I merely talk about the issue. Also this is an internet medium, I am unable to actively go to the anonymous people who visit this forum and force them to stop thinking in group mentalities; I am unable force upon them the ability to think freely and stop merely following.
“Don’t try to force your opinions onto a crowd, it will only backfire” Why will it backfire? Because people resist being told they are wrong, especially when they think they are right. But obviously I am talking to another person who is sitting high up on the bandwagon. You’re implying I should simply lie down and accept the way things are, but if that really were the case then things like equal human rights and the fact that women can vote would not be here today. You sir, are the naysayer; and I say nay to your nay-saying.
This “scene” I have been causing I will not apologize for. With these words if I have changed but one person’s mind then I have done what I sought out to do. I know the world will not change overnight. But every puzzle piece I help to put in will eventually bring us to the bigger picture.
Look, I understand wholeheartedly that right now I am trying to tear the readers from their loyalty to the writer. He has provided many great strips that you have come to enjoy and what I am doing is shouting for you to get off the bandwagon when you are all quite comfortable staying on it. That may not make me the “good guy” in your eyes, but I stopped trying to please others by complying long ago.
What a place to run out of comics… Present day, here I am…
And what a special present awaits me…
.
Drone.
You beautiful bastard! =D
I should have got one of you a long time ago
.
The apparent deviation of your perspective from my own is minor enough that I would like to unofficially employ you (i.e. I won’t pay you) to act as my stunt-double.
The purpose of which being that you say the things I want to say, and in the event of them breaking the rules, you’re the one who suffers the consequences. I get all the upsides of having an opinion functionally equivalent to my own expressed, and none of the risks.
.
I expect the only choice you even have in the matter is whether or not you post at all.
@ Drone:
First off, no. I’m not even sure where you pulled that comment about Wikipedia’d information out from, but I don’t want to know.
Secondly, fiction does favor the protagonist, and in our society that’s more than likely the good guy. You want to prove me wrong? Show me one single work of fiction where the antagonist wins despite the protagonist’s efforts. And no, horror stories do not count.
The simple fact is that you cannot, no one can. It’s not that good story writing when the antagonist wins, because who would want to see that?
Thirdly, what if the bully is being beaten…oh god, not that. Let me make something very clear: if that is the case, then the bully is not the main antagonist! For example, in Soul Eater the character Crona is shown to have been abused and even experimented on by his/her (its an undefined gender character) own mother, to the point where Crona goes mad and kills repeatedly. Is Crona the bad guy? No! Absolutely not. That’s not how it works. If the story touches on why the bully is a bully, then they usually aren’t the antagonist, with a few exceptions in certain cases. In this case and most other cases, the backstory is not given, therefore it is to be assumed that the bully is the antagonist, and therefore the protagonist actions are justified, whether it would be acceptable in real life society or not. That’s why I mentioned that it was a comic; real life social rules apply only loosely if at all. That is why the bad guys from something like Leverage can get away with so much bribery and rule breaking; in real life it probably wouldn’t happen, a judge would never be allowed to postpone cases indefinitely for one specific person with a reason, for example. But it makes for good entertainment, so moral laws and judicial laws on occasion are shoved out of the way. The most obvious case being CSI or NCIS or any of those types of shows; in real life, the people who collect the evidence, the people who analyze it, and the people who arrest the suspects are separate entities, in the show they’re the same group of people because it makes the show more exciting. And, finally, things like this comic, or something like Ned’s Declassified, in real life there’s probably a reason for people to be bullies, but if the story doesn’t explain why, then it doesn’t matter! This comic just says that Zoey is mean for the sake of being mean, no sob story about how she was abused or anything, therefore she’s the antagonist, whether you like it or not. And because she’s the antagonist, the protagonist (in this case, Larisa) actions are justified, QED, end of discussion, however you want to put it.
@ Extraintelligence:
Your comment reminds me of responses to “Video games promote real-life violence,” and I agree with you. People who play video games are no more prone to participate in violence than any other person, especially when the video game player plays Nintendo and Sega and such, which is so far from real-life that I cannot understand where people come from for the argument.
This comic is clearly not real-life–there is a talking raccoon! And best friends that are a squirrel and a fox! The brief moments like this that could be real life are still not to be tried at home, but really, even if it was my best two friends in that picture I would still support the picture, just because it is so funny. Really, those two were asking for it. My friends would probably pose for that picture, just because it is funny.
@ Drone:
Short, simple comment:
Stop the argument. You all sound like you are arguing just for the sake of flame wars. Just talk about the comic within its context, and not like it is real life.
@ Neospector:
I did not personally search Wikipedia for that comment. I was merely stating that the points your brought forth in your previous comment were so simple that one could probably find all that information on Wikipedia. In other words, you’re stating the obvious.
While I will not personally show you an example, I will however direct you to a little niche known as Iranian Cinema; and no this is not propaganda film, it is independent artists creating work that is outside the classical Hollywood structure. If you’re going to start talking in broad statements, try to at least be clued up on everything before you start generalizing because unfortunately for your belief that antagonists never win is simply that, a belief (and one that is not privy to all the facts). While I mention you should investigate Iranian Cinema, I am not saying simple look it up over the internet and believe what people have written about the films; actually watch one or two for yourself, maybe then you’ll be aware of more than just what you belief exists.
“The protagonist actions are justified”, this is a common misconception, they are in fact not justified, but rather you as the audience are manipulated into believing they are (through certain techniques that are specific to the genre you are referring to). Get those two distinctions right.
“Real life social rules apply only loosely if at all”, unless where are dealing with an alternate reality where these breaks in the norm are considered the new norm, then in fact this is not true; because any story that does this without giving sufficient reason loses any sense of consistency and often breaks down into a sham that contain poor writing, half-baked directing and will never break even with it’s budget. In many senses one can disregard these texts in relation to your argument because they are the exception and not the rule (and by exception I mean they are not even worth investing your time in as an audience).
Your example of Leverage I have personally never watched it, but I gave it a quick Google and I see that the series has been cancelled due to poor ratings. So obviously people were becoming disinterested with the unbelievable plot. But nice use of an example in your writing, you may just want to check its credibility next time. Oh, and if you were you thinking of rebutting by stating that the series was into its fifth season; trust me, bad American television can easily make its way into a sixth or seventh season. But that is because in America the focus is more towards making money than it is towards making art. Case in point Idols, really? That is still going on? With multiple attempts at more spin-offs, its about what’s popular and making money, even if it is mindless droll.
Your example of CSI, yes that series is hyper-exaggerated. If you couldn’t tell just by their ability to manipulate images perfectly no matter the resolution then you’re a bit slow. However what makes what you were touching on believable is the fact that everyone in that show is part of a certain division, and generally they have one main actor whose sole job is actaully a police detective and that is the person who handles the formal arrests. While the series may stretch the truth at times, it does have some level of consistency.
But overall your points were very compelling, especially the fact that did not mention a single series/show that does not utilize the classical Hollywood structure (yes even your Japanese anime uses that structure), if you’re not entirely sure what I mean by classical Hollywood structure then I’ll provide a brief explanation in regards to your argument: The structure will always have the protagonist be the “good guy” and the antagonist the “bad guy”.
While I understand it’s not entirely your fault that you are unaware of anything but the classical Hollywood structure, because it has become a monopoly that has been commercialized; the same way everyone is aware of McDonald’s. Because it is all you have ever been exposed to you believe it is the only kind of method that exists. But please, don’t try and argue with me when you are ignorant.
I feel like an astronaut arguing with a hermit about how the world is round, while he thinks it is flat because all he has ever been exposed to is one big flat landmass.
So thank you for the end of your discussion, but I have only begun to start and I’m still waiting here patiently for someone who can actually equal me.
@SotiCoto
It’s nice to see a similar mind to mine. Although I can’t be entirely sure how close you are to mine, since you’ve only seen what I’ve been able to write (which has been through an editing process so that it doesn’t turn into a complete essay).
You speak of risk as if I have something to lose. But these are simply anonymous internet peoples. I have neither had nor will lose anything from them. Although my goal is to gain something, but if I never receive it then I haven’t lost it either because I wasn’t mine to take (or is simply sticking its head in the sand and feigning ignorance).
@ Lucario:
Short, simple comment:
I am within my rights to argue. I am not arguing simply for flame wars. I am talking within the context, however I have also stipulated the links between the comic and real life.
@ Dravkon:
I imagine she’s got an American accent (really, there’s lots of those… just travel a few hundred miles and suddenly everyone sounds weird!) but that a Russian one creeps in when she’s being dramatic. Whether or not she does it on purpose, I’m not sure.
@ Drone:
Sorry it took me so long to respond, I’ve been out of town.
Here are some important points I want to make:
I agree with you that bullying is wrong, period. You cannot argue with someone who agrees with you, so that is behind us.
People can distinguish between reality and fiction. Here’s a better example than Loony Toons; a lot of people enjoy the show “House MD” which is about an antisocial doctor who regularly puts his patients at great risk on mere hunches. The chairman of the hospital, Edward Vogler, tries to get rid of house for his techniques and is viewed as the antagonist. Although many enjoy Dr. House and his antics, such appalling behaviour in reality would never be tolerated and the actions of the chairman would be applauded.
Implication. in this situation, it is the act of saying something without actually writing it out, whether you meant to or not. For instance, when you said “Lastly in examining your irony, I believe my “bullying” far outshines that of the people who disagree with me” you strongly imply that “the people who disagree with (you)” are bullies. In extension, this implies that there are only two people; those who agree with you, and bullies, and that comes out as a self-righteous attitude. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but that’s how it came out.
Contrast this with my statement, “In fact, it leaves everyone else feeling justified in their reasoning and thinking that you’re just a self-righteous prick.” followed by “Now I don’t think you are…” I explicitly deny the implication of self-righteous and prick-like behavior by saying that I don’t think you are (p.s, I still don’t think you are a self-righteous prick; I think you’re trying to help, but going about it the wrong way).
Also, I am not sure if it is comically or painfully ironic that you complained about me “Twisting your words” to fit my argument and then immediately quoted me out of context to prove the points you made! (the context was that you’re not going to convince anyone to see your point of view with the way you were delivering your information, and instead it came out rude and condescending, which makes the folks you’re trying to convince even more certain that they are right.) Then you called me out for name calling on the comment that had been taken out of context followed by calling me an instigator. As an assisting editor for a high-school English textbook, I can say with some authority that these statements are as good as any textbook example of hypocrisy. I do not believe you are a hypocrite, but if you do not want to be seen as one, you must carefully proofread what you write before you submit it.
Now, a simple rule in persuasion is this; If you make people feel good, they will be more willing to agree with what you say, and if you make people feel bad, they will resist what you say with every fiber of their being.
Let me give you a simplified example; if I were to say to a man “You seem very smart, I bet you’ll want to go work for Companies Inc.” then he would probably give up better paying jobs to work for Companies Inc. and rationalize it by saying that he’ll probably get promoted quicker or get better raises.
On the other hand, If I were to say “You’re an idiot if you don’t want to work for Companies Inc.” then he would probably avoid the incorporation even if it had better pay and reason that the conditions there are probably worse.
I am not your enemy. I’m trying to help you. I believe you are right, but the goal is to convince people you are right, and if we work together we can do that.
@ Extraintelligence:
Well, a lot more of that is in bold than I intended. I wonder what went wrong.
@ Lucario:
What a coincidence, I happen to have written a few articles on the same subject, and from the same standpoint no less.