- Dorothy Cambridge: The first thing you need to learn, girls, is that boys have absolutely nothing that you don’t have too!
- Larisa: But Cloud has a penis and I don’t.
- Dorothy Cambridge: Penises are just a social construct!
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- Dorothy Cambridge: The first thing you need to learn, girls, is that boys have absolutely nothing that you don’t have too!
- Larisa: But Cloud has a penis and I don’t.
- Dorothy Cambridge: Penises are just a social construct!
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@ Nightsbridge:
I’m pretty sure there have been other more reasonable feminists portrayed in this comic. I’m also sure if you reread the comic some that you could find some.
A fanatic always looks ridiculous to those who don’t share their views.
@ Natanji
Can you please name fields, where women are unfairly oppressed? Natural scientist, film director, writer, that are more worthy of some honorary award, than a man who got awarded instead? Fighting non-existant problems is why radical feminists, LGBT activists, whatever are so hatred. No one is limiting you in whatever you wish to do with your life. I would prefer crazy bitches like Yelena Mizulina to stay in the kitchen instead of creating dumb-ass laws in our parlament, but hey, she got there somehow! I mean, I’ve seen someone, who consider prohibition for females being mine-worker sexist, but hopefully, you are not that type.
Lance wrote:
AND she’s completely ignoring half the class by focusing entirely of the girls. I’m waiting for Michelle, Larissa, and Sandra to totally destroy this… person’s… point of view and hand her what she uses for a hat rack.
I truly couldn’t find a good word for the person. Saying what first came to mind would insult female canines by the comparison.
Over 100 comments in less than 2 days? wow.
@ Novil:
The problem is that it looks like you’re just lashing out at feminists in the wake of the #YesAllWomen Twitter storm. I’ve already seen other cartoonists making that mistake, and it definitely lowered my opinion of them. It’s something that, wittingly or unwittingly, belittles and demeans the entire movement, when so many people really do think that the entire movement is led by blind man-haters who view all men as scum.
Oliver, on the other hand, I am going to give the benefit of the doubt and wait for the ultimate message of this arc. You haven’t let me down yet.
There’s no message yet aside from “extremists are absurd”. The Harry Potter version was equally absurd in her adherence to “following the rules”.
Why are so many people jumping on this as if any message regarding feminism has been given?
most of the time I encounter feminists, I just smile and walk away. I stand tall enough to have to duck slightly when walking through a normal door, so that action tends to attract their attention when I ignore them.
Quite interestingly, the times I can’t walk away, it seems it’s always an encounter with an extremist.
For example… yesterday, Is saw a woman in the same hallway and approaching a door. She had bags of groceries in her arms. I changed my direction and opened the door for her.
Did she thank me? NO! She stood there and accused me of sexism because I thought a woman couldn’t open a door by herself.
I closed the door and left.
Mrs. Cambridge: “Penises are just a social construct!”
Larisa: *smiles seductively* “Clouuud, can I have a look at your ‘social construct’?”
Cloud: “Aahh!!” *runs and ducks behind Sandra*
Mrs. Cambridge: “Larisa!”
Larisa: “But- but- but – it’s just a social construct!”
Alright, I’m just going to say it now. If feminists want to stop people from making comparisons to the sensible majority of them and the extremists, they need to START BEING MORE VOCAL. I mean honestly it’s not like they don’t have the power to be with the amount of major celebrities that are feminists. The thing I’m trying to say is when I usually it’s usually the extremists ones doing something insane. Heck the majority of feminists I met are the extremely pushy ones who are willing to lambaste anything a sexist. The feminist community need to step up, if the majority truly isn’t insane then they need to unite, fight, and show it.
Charles wrote:
Because feminism is some sort of holy thing, you are not allowed to say anything negative, in any shape or form, about it. All you can do is to fall to your knees and thank it for… “educating” you.
Incidentally, feminism is a social construct. So is time. And idea that humans are equal.
Mandemon wrote:
Incidentally, feminism is a social construct. So is time. And idea that humans are equal.
Damn it, hit the submit button before I finished.
Other things that are social contructs are superiority of one group over another, statehood, laws, civil rights, good manners and politics.
Just because something is “social construct” does not automatically mean it’s “bad”.
@ alicemacher:
Dude this has nothing to with balance. I felt Novil’s comment was more of a “I can make fun of anyone. Why do people only think its okay to mock conserivtice crazies and not liberal crazies?”
@ Valkeiper2012:
I hold the door open for anyone with their hands full or who is behind me. That is properly egalitarian and not sexist. That women is just an idiot.
@ Natanji:
While I do agree that it’s important to make fun of the extremist sides of major political groups, that doesn’t give extremist feminists feminists a get out of ail free card. In fact that makes it even more important to make fun of them.
It’s because the type of feminist shown in this comic are what most people see as the “mainstream” feminist. The crazy raving feminist who’s both pushy and annoying, so people make fun of them. Not because they’re sexist themselves (or at least not always) but because that’s the side of feminists that’s usually shown.
But it’s not entirely a bad thing. If anything it serves as a wake-up call to the sensible feminists. The ones who are fighting for true equality between the sexes. It pushes them to do better, and to take the extremists and shut them up. When there was a crazy Suffragist who wanted to run for president Susan B Anthony and Elizabeth Stanton threw all the power they had collected in to getting her and her extremist group to shut up.
Because the extreme feminists aren’t like the black panthers who actually managed to get somethings done and push forward the movement. All they’re doing is creating more extremists and setting your movement back.
So much drama. Of course, from the people that make memetic mockery, ridiculization and weaponization of “not all men”, who are now ironically saying that “not all feminists are like that”.
It’s easy, if you don’t like that portrayal, see yourself, are you like that? No? Good, nothing to worry about. You are? Improve. Dorothy Cambridge is NOTHING compared to many cases or people out there that are not cartoons, but actual, real people. So don’t act like only you are untouchable and make some self criticism from time to time.
If what people are telling about feminists are actually true, then feminists in the US are far more extreme than in my country (generally, feminists are not extreme in my country.) I guess that makes sense, US tends to have more extreme views in general, be it religion, politics or economical system among other things.
@ Drax:
as a lesbian woman, this is how I’ve felt this whole time. I try to fight them where I see them, but I can only do so much. I can’t wait for the strong female characters of this comic to take her down.
@ Natanji:
If you are honestly that upset over this, it is probably because you can see some of yourself in the position she is spouting. When I see caricatures of door-to-door missionaries, sometimes I get offended, but then I take the time to stand back and look at what truth can be found in the joke.
@ alicemacher:
The balance fallacy has nothing to do with people saying that the strip has made fun of fundamentalist Christians and Homophobes before.
Balance Fallacy: “Well the strip made fun of Christians before, so now it has to make fun of Liberals.”
What is actually being argued: “The strip made fun of a Fundamentalist Christian strawman before, so why is it suddenly a problem to make fun of a crazy Feminist strawman?”
@ Natanji:
I would like to counter your question of “who exactly gives you the authority to decide about the harmfulness or not” by asking you the very same question. You are getting extremely irritable about a character in a comic who may or may not be based off of one of the most hated Characters to be conceived (ei or ie? I can’t remember >.>; ) The only person who has barged in here slinging Blatant accusations at, not only Oliver and Powree, but at the other people viewing this comic, Is you.
“Just because you HAVE opinions, doesn’t generally mean you SHOULD present them. Have you ever heard of the sentiment “He who argues with fools is the greatest fool of all?” – thereby it is better to sit in the shadows and be seen as quiet but wise then to prance around all willy-nilly with the same people you think are stupid”
another thing, with how big of a jerk you are being you think you have any right to state this? You have your Opinion, and CLEARLY you think we are entitled to it. If you can’t handle the fact that in response you are going to get others opinions and you are going to respond to their Opinions by telling them, “Sometimes being quiet is more powerful than taking a stand.” Take your own advice.
Landbark wrote:
Actually the word “Pussy” in this context is derived from the word Pusillanimous:
Pusillanimous – a. little minded; faint-hearted; destitute of that strength of mind which constitutes courage; cowardly. L. pusus small boy + animus mind.
so basically “Don’t be a Pussy” isn’t feminine at all.
Technically a penis is derived from embryonic clitoris and ovaries.
… Oh this won’t end well.
@ RWB:
The labeling is relevant. For a comic whose punchline is a “penis is a social construct,” someone saying their birth genitalia (what non-cisgendered means) does not match up with their gender identity is at least a little relevant. It’s saying that even the penis is not so concrete a thing when it gets to gender identity (e.g. a pre-op trans-man may not have a penis)
I have decided to comment further:
One issue that I have with Cambridge’s comment is that it denies the existence of members of the non-cis gendered community. Given that they have a gender identity that does not correspond to their sex, it opposes her statement to it being a social construct. And given that they are marginalized in society, she further exacerbates it by denying their existence.
I look forward to further insults and idiocies she will be giving and to the due correction that she will get Larissa
Irrespective of the serious, or semi-serious conversation this character is obviously inspired by and possibly related to Doris Umbridge.
Dusk wrote:
So, how does that work?
If I just made a joke on the KKK, does that means it is okay to make a racist joke on black people, for instance?
Your whole point seems to be that beliefs and opinions should all be equally respected regardless of their nature and content. I say this is false and wrong.
(Incidently, I clicked on Alicemacher’s link, and the very first sentence basically says exactly that. “The balance fallacy, also known as false balance, occurs when two sides of an argument are assumed to have equal value regardless of their respective merits.”)
@ alicemacher:
RationalWiki is an extremist site run by people who actively try to throw rape accusations at people they’ve never even met in person, usually just for disagreeing(example: the armoured skeptic). If the person happens to be well-known, they will try to use their blogs and their wiki to assassinate their reputation.
Excuse me if I don’t find them a trustworthy source on anything, really. The silly “feminist” in the comic is less unpleasant than Atheism+, RationalWiki and FreeThought(that’s a laugh!)Blogs.
Baro wrote:
I was going to say something about that, but I’m still happy you beat me to it. Nice to know it’s not just me. Now this is a concept that should absolutely be explored in the wake of “Yes all women”.
@ oxayotl:
Sigh. You are completely, utterly, and totally missing any semblance of the point.
This is not about equally valid viewpoints. This is about equally invalid viewpoints.
The reason it’s okay to make fun of them is that they are crazy. Christian Crazy, Feminist Crazy, Racist Crazy. Any flavor of crazy. That’s the common theme here.
It does not, in any way, make any judgement on the validity of Christianity, Feminism, or being White as a whole. It just makes a judgement on being crazy.
If anything, you are in fact committing the balance fallacy yourself by suggesting that the ‘crazy’ faction in a given group deserves equal treatment to the whole.
I’m unsure how to feel about this…….. welp, I’m sure this situation will solve itself one way or another -looks at Larissa-…..
@ oxayotl:
Apart from what Takashoru already said: Oranges and apples, my friend. Oranges and apples. Unless you call black people as a whole an extremist group.
If at all, your sentence should have been along the lines of
“If I just made a joke on the KKK, does that mean it is okay to make a joke on black supremacists, for instance?”
(The answer on that being yes and no. Yes, it would be okay. No, it wouldn’t be because you just made a joke on the KKK.)
Really? There’s gonna be a whole storyline of this?
I mainly know this argument from transgender-advocacy via the intersex-angle. I am looking forward to see how the gag plays out on a feminist perpective.
Here’s a voice of reason for everyone:
If it’s okay to make fun of extreme right groups, then it’s okay to make fun of extreme left groups.
That’s all.
Now go get some cold drinks and chill out folks.
Please, get back to doing cute stories about raccoons. Nothing good will come of this.
@ Ian Albert:
Ahh, yes. These particular feminists generally hate trans*people, because they supposedly ‘promote the gender binary’, and are labeled ‘rapists’ or ‘traitors’.
@ d.:
I don’t see you complaining about the last story line.
Feminism in the past used to be concerned about perfectly valid issues such as voting. Nowadays? it’s just a estrogen-filled circlejerk that gives some women an excuse to get offended over everything and demean the other gender (while also demeaning themselves).
“Social construct”? Woman, its because of a dick that YOU exist.
@ Landbark:
But calling somebody a ‘dick’ is very insulting too.
Basically sums up every single feminist I’ve ever met and yes I went to OSU a place full of feminists who are basically massive hypocrites
@ WAFFLES:
And neither is superior.
@ Natanji:
“I think making a very powerful group of people the butt of the joke, like conservative Christians, who are not at all marginalized in any western country and do not suffer from discrimination, is quite okay.”
Oh, wow. Talk about hypocrisy. So a group happens to be bigger than you, so it’s all right to insult and belittle them? Well aren’t you just the fucking patron saint of equality.
I have witnessed the discrimination against Christians in our society; it happens in our schools, our colleges, our workplaces, and even in our very homes. And people like you are the biggest source of this problem. They think it’s okay to throw veiled insults at people wearing a shirt with an ichthys because they’re the majority, and therefore “aren’t persecuted.” If a man walks into a Hot Topic store wearing a Crucifix and someone tells him “the Christian Book Store is on the OTHER side of the mall,” no one bats an eye, because “It’s not discrimination if they’re the biggest group.”
At first, I thought you were just a person who was touchy and a little misguided*, but on the whole, still a good person. Now I see that you’re a terrible person who has no problem with Christians being bullied and belittled simply because they’re big.
*When I say “misguided,” I am referring to the fact that you don’t think people like Dorothy Cambridge (the woman in this comic,) didn’t exist.
Wikipedia has a little write-up on the whole biological sex as a social construct-thing, in case anyone cares.
The argument can be made that the gender binary is a social construct, like pretty much every classification we use in daily life.
The funny part comes in when people confuse artificial with meaningless and try to argue political positions with it.
@ Potatamoto:
http://xkcd.com/1357/
K BYE.
I had a teacher like this in college. EXACTLY like this. No exaggeration.
@ PhoulTheGhoul:
Woops that was meant for Natanji sorry potato, I don’t know why it made a @potatomato sorry!
About Larisa’s comment in last panel.
What if Larisa is not aware of the gender theory like 90% of the population in the world who are busy living their lives and don’t have time to spend on bullshit. This cis majority, they couldn’t care less if people identified as male, girl, dragon, they don’t even know they exist. Cut them some slack when they “misgender” you, they just don’t care, and they don’t have to.
This whole “But everyone must be aware of everything and use correct pronouns” is bullshit, sorry. Interactions with strangers should NEVER be taken personnally. For instance, you go buy a coffee, they give you your coffee, and if you are of the female sex, with a female appearance, but want to use HIS/HIM/HIMSELF pronouns, they can’t fucking know, and they are right to not fucking care. They can’t waste time asking every single customer what their gender is, when litterally 99% (and I’ve worked in coffee shops) of the customers are cis.
That’s you being spoiled.
As a cis-gendered male rabid glass-chewing feminist (complete with state-level NOW officership in my past), all I have to say is: get a grip, folk. Incoherent fanatics and cargo cult poseurs are inherently funny, whether they’re obsessed with invisible sky friends or pseudo-scientific claptrap or, yes, even social justice concerns.
The statement “a penis is a social construct” has an element of truth, just as does “all heterosexual sex is rape,” “there are no atheists in foxholes,” and “vaccines are harmful.” Taken as is, though, outside of a context that frames them in a way that leads a contemplative listener to that truthful element, they are all obviously absurd. Worshipfully holding them aloft outside of that context shows primarily that the holder simply doesn’t understand what they mean—and the holder is a cargo-cult poseur, replacing thinking with chanting a slogan.
You may have noticed most of the characters of the strip are strong feminists, and I fully expect Dolores Umbridge here will get smacked in the face by reality, courtesy of the main characters, soon enough. Whether she notices, of course, will be chancy, as it is with all fanatics and poseurs.
When any group becomes immune to being made fun of we’ll have lost a vital freedom.
Satire wouldn’t be funny if it didn’t contain a kernel of truth. It wouldn’t get your attention if it was tepid and PC.
Now shut your curry holes and dick holsters.