- Lilith: I’m not able to break through Ilias’ mental barrier. His mind isn’t weakened enough yet.
- Eldor: Too bad… for him.
- Lilith: Sit down!
- Viviana: Hmpf!
- Lilith: Ilias, listen to me!
- Lilith: I’m going to get a drink at the Bhaal. Will you come along?
- Ilias: What?
- Eldor: Huh?
- Viviana: ???
- Lilith: Ilias, I command you to obey all of Eldor’s orders until the shield around the Source has been destroyed!
|
Thats a really lousy way how to perform a Jedi mindtrick…
I would opt for Sith Dominate mind…
Give me all your money and jump into the chasm…
The circle closes.
Alright, that’s one minor mystery down (Red Hall #40) – but I must confess I don’t understand why, in the present, Lilith chose the words she did to get the desired effect.
@ lupoCani:
Goooood memory
@ lupoCani:
It’s rather Red Hall #39
Hard to believe how much the art has changed!
@ lupoCani:
It seems like she time-traveled to her own mind in the past to set up that verbal key. She used those words because those are the ones she used in the past except for Bhaal, but then everyone in the past heard Bhaal because of what present Lili just did.
Question is: what does it unlock?
It could be something like sending Ilias’ mind briefly to that moment in the past so that he doesn’t get affected by the spell
I freaking called it. Everyone doubted me, but I knew. Time loop mind magic.
And she definitely is trying to save their lives, as evidenced by Eldor saying “Too bad…”
lupoCani wrote:
She didn’t choose it. It was a response in the present to what happened in the past. She sent back her response, overlapping the original. Like recording over a tape.
She originally said “I’m going to (get a drink at the bar). Will you come along?”
Then she wiped over it, saying “I’m going to (Bhaal). Will you come along?”
Neither Eldor nor Vivi understands the reference, because they weren’t there (but Sandril, which Eldor is possessing, was there).
http://www.sandraandwoo.com/gaia/2012/02/10/the-red-hall-039/
“The word you’re looking for is ‘kill.'”
Lili is going to kill Bhaal.
“I’m going to go get a drink at the bar.” is what she meant to say on Red Hall 39. “get a drink at the” is excised and replaced with the word common to both, “Bhaal” and hides “kill.”
If this is true. Well done, Novil & Powree. Well done.
Given the Bluestream event, I don’t think that this is the *specific* event in question – I think it’s just the codeword she’s using, much in the same way as they used “Come along” here:
http://www.sandraandwoo.com/gaia/2014/02/18/the-letter-of-jael-bara-029/
Ilias *might’ve* been looking directly at the shield at the time, but the style and art were different enough that I imagine the comeback to that might still show up later.
Just sayin’: if we stepped completely out of context here, it could certainly be a way to transcribe a particularly noisy belch happening while attempting to say the word “bar”… which is probably not an uncommon combination.
@ Samantha:
A time loop, eh? Then all they have to do is “blah blah blah”.
http://www.sandraandwoo.com/gaia/2014/06/20/the-letter-of-jael-bara-062/
Will you come along? 🙂
Okay. I NEED to reread the comic. Not only because I don’t get what’s happening more than half of the time. Also because this comic is deeper than I originally thought. Tbh, I came here to that comic by accident, looking for Gaia Online game, but Google wanted me to find Gaia comic. For some time I thought this is comic about the Gaia Online, was a bit confused. Then understood it’s not. I like webcomics. And I’m glad I found this one. I really, really enjoy it.
I don’t think the word “Kill” quite fits here. The issue being, in the German version, the direct translation to English of the ‘kill’ word is “to kill”, the infinitive – possibly also “[we] kill” or “[they] kill”, but probably the infinitive. Now, in the English translation, “I am going to [kill] Bhaal” makes sense, but in the German version the grammar does not add up. The German also has the words “going to”, or possibly just “going”, but that is not how you conjugate the future tense in German. You either use the present tense alone, or the future tense with “will”, and there is no substituting that for “going to” (that I am aware of).
So, I think this keys us into where the word will be used, but I don’t think this *is* where.
@ Tomana:
That’s an interesting interpretation.
I guess Eldor is in for a bad surprise once the shield around the source is destroyed, and they stop obeying him all of a sudden. To get a drink at the/kill bhaal.
She’s confused everyone else, so why not Ilias, too. If it works, it works.
And she managed to stun him very cleanly. She only broke time and space. She didn’t even have to flash her boobs to stun him.
Ah, so there is the trigger phrase. Or at least a trigger phrase. Lili has set this up as a way to fool Eldor, as so many of us suspected, though I utterly failed to catch the time looping aspect, good job. Most of us suspected that Lillith was planning on sacrificing herself but now I’m wondering if Lilli has already sacrificed herself, forced to commit herself to totally to Eldor so the Lilli of the past could use her as a conduit.
Samantha wrote:
Except this time it’s red time loop magic. All of the other time loop were blue, right?
It would be interesting to learn how exactly this mind control spell is supposed to work. Maybe we could have a panel explaining that in some way? Without the little details that would probably spoil something…
Sekhmet wrote:
There’s not much to add to what was already shown in the comic. The target has to carry out the order given to him to the best of his ability. It’s not only about the letter of the order, but also about the spirit of the order. But the order can’t be overly general. It must be about a specific topic and there must be a clearly defined reasonable end condition.
Novil wrote:
Thanks, that’s fully clear now :).
(Except for Lilith’s mind, but of course we are not supposed to know about that yet… ^^)
Sekhmet wrote:
We’re supposed to have the Arcane skill and analyze it ourselves.That way we can do counterspells!
It probably works similar to a Mandela Effect, where you seed confusion on a person’s brain by creating ripples through changing conversation and events. Like people swear that they used to see Fruit Loops as Froot Loops (this is actually a double Mandela Effect, because people remember this one shifting back and forth, but currently that’s backwards), in A Christmas Carol it was a goose that Scrooge gave to cratchet with the former being duck or something (but it changed to first duck then turkey, yeah right, it takes place in London, turkey is a new world animal, and would have been something he couldn’t have bought with change for the kid, some might have been imported and bred locally at expense but at the time that was absurd, because the market was for goose), and in Star Wars it really was “Luke, I am you father” (because other movies and shows referenced it as such, and the radio version had it that way, saying “No Luke, I am your father” and Jedi Search had him remember it this way) .
https://www.alternatememories.com/historical-events/brands/fruit-froot-loops
https://www.gq.com/story/the-case-for-eating-goose
https://www.liveabout.com/famous-star-wars-quotes-never-said-2957977
The Mandela Effect is like the force wipe, only the weak-willed get fooled when someone goes back in time and changes things.
(waves) Dodo birds are still alive. It’s the penguin that is extinct.
You: Dodo birds are still alive…
I guess Lili’s plan involves the “end condition” – she specifically said “Until the barrier has been destroyed”.
Maybe she has away to let that happen in a way that inconveniences Eldor? So that she’ll have her support group back just when he thinks he has got it all in his bag.
The order given to her also ends when the barrier is broken. And I’m pretty sure that her plan involves to break it anyway.
In short: to me it seemed she tricked Eldor into working with her to common goal, only to be freed of his influence at exactly the right point in time. (Bonus points for making sure that her friends stay safe until that time and for keeping them from trying some stupid heroics)
I see a lot of people theorizing about exact twistings of meanings in the red speech bubble, here’s my interpretation:
Whatever caused her intended words “I’m going to get a drink at the bar” in Red Hall #39 to be overwritten with “I’m going to Bhaal”, which people identified as some kinda bluestream/redstream slip, is the exact same thing that happened here. What we’re seeing in the red speech bubble is the exact same phenomenon and the exact same result, just visualized differently.
One key thing to note here is the colors and such in the speech bubble, indicating some alteration is happening to her words. This could be a deliberate callback to the Red Hall, but timeslipping and altering her previous words right now serves pretty much no purpose, thus it seems far more likely that whatever altered her words previously also altered them here. Secondly, the image on Red Hall #39 is very similar to what she looks like now, but not quite the same. For example, she isn’t holding her staff, and she does not have sky in the background. This tells me that we’re not yet to the point where she reaches back and alters her own words.
Would I be wrong to say in my opinion I prefer the old art style on some pages? Lol@ Ratfox:
Sneaky little spell proof. Getting his agreement Then to tell him to agree Now or end up like Ms 2020 over there.
An interesting thing to note is why Alissa is one of the important six that had to come with here. She’s the only living entity who has actually Seen the result of that shield experiment and the one person Lilith can subtlety warn what’s coming.
Well – I would just say one thing – Bhaal – in this case is not refering to “bar” buts its about the same “joke” Jack ONeill made in Stargate when tortured by Baal…
its
ball – prom – ball dancing
if used as synonym.
anyway somehow lilith created a temporal distrution to weaken Illiases defences…
And well – I am pretty sure Eldor DID notice right now…
Samantha wrote:
I would rather assume that Lilith timeshifted the spell, like she casted it on Illias into the past… In exact time where Illias was not at all focusing on any defence against it.
It seems that breaking out of this spell is not as easy as we were let to believe. But it can be fairly easily resisted during casting itself.
Then again… I am pretty sure Eldor must have noticed the magical energies required to do this… Meaning… While he is likely surprised I think Lili gave away something she hoped not to.
I am still with Ryn on notion that the worldlines aren’t what Lilith makes them to be.
After all, she was not born in Gallifrey to be able to see all futures that span from taking action. She is no timelord
I still think this isn’t the actual event, I think she’s just using the phrase to shock him enough that he lowers his guard.
Matt wrote:
… and in the unlikely case it isn’t, it’s definitely how she will explain it to Eldor.
So, she is using a code (cypher) to communicate with Illias, a time one. With Illias and Ryn and Alyssa. And Eldor of course cannot understand because he doesn’t know the key, all before his eyes (and ears). It’s a very remarkable scene.
Paeris Kiran wrote:
After all, she was not born in Gallifrey to be able to see all futures that span from taking action. She is no timelord
And those goobers sure manage to goof it up enough as it is, so point made.
I would think her viewing is more based on probability made manifest, then any true form of knowing, even if she herself doesn’t see it exactly that way.
I wonder if @ Tomana is right. I was waiting for the reference, and I missed the extra word, myself. “I am going to Bhaal” makes sense on its own, at least in English. However, if “get a drink at the bar” was transported to the future, that fits well with a word sent to the past getting lost (in old and present speech).
Alternately, Lili is just demonstrating that her mind is still her own. She is referring to something that Eldor presumably did not order her to do, and simultaneously inviting Ilias on an adventure he already agreed to (in his mind). This explanation would mean the word “kill” is still to be needed.
Either version is consistent with a communication or new knowledge from that orb that sat in the source. I think we can now rule out that Lili was overcome by Eldor’s spell when she touched the spirit-sphere.
I would not call Lili connecting with her past premonition a time loop. Nobody was sent to the past. Premonitions and augury are common in traditional folklore. Time loops are not.