- Eldor: Yes, it worked!
- Eldor: “Get a drink at the Bhaal?”
- Lilith: I’ve always suspected that Niko’s Strict Order is much more effective against confused victims. So I came up with a completely nonsensical sentence.
- Eldor: Good to know.
- Eldor: All right, let’s go!
- Lilith: Where are we going?
- Eldor: To the Void!
- Lilith: The Tower in the Sky!
- Eldor: If you want to call it like that, yes.
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I am not sure Eldor buys that but whatever… and Lilith seems to be somewhat surprised… Maybe new information again again wrecking her plans…
its nicely over void, which should be nicely over the source… in one line?
Hopefully we’re about to find out the tower’s real purpose. Given its shape, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s meant to go down into the void partway, or it’s going to funnel something through the void from the source. Maybe even both!
@ Paeris Kiran:
Eldor wouldn’t have known about the Blueshift back in Red Hall, so it makes sense he thinks it’s a nonsense phrase.
Also, as he probably knows the Niko’s Strict Order spell better, he probably knows whether it works better on confused targets.(He likely never really tested it on *understanding* and *willing* targets before, so that’s a potential loophole.).
Both composition and colour-wise, this page is beautiful!
The heroes have been frustrated time and again because they play chess, and Eldor plays three-dimensional chess. Unfortunately for Eldor, he doesn’t realize that he is currently playing on Lili’s four-dimensional chess board.
I theorize that eldor isn’t the bad guy.
At least he seems to know what he is doing.
And i have the idea that some kind of divine intervention is happening with those sentences…
Lilith seems to be aware of it, and is playing along i think?
Also, 3 stream theory.
Fun fact # 432: Kylo Ren’s helmet in Star Wars Ep. IX was designed by the same elvish architect as The Tower in the Sky.
Nonsense is just code you don’t understand.
I guess there’s a reason they need to be at the top of the Void, rather than the outlet of the Void (which was in the same room with the Source they just left)? Perhaps to use Lilith’s powers combined with this tower to shoot some kind of spell down into the Void at the source shield?
The explanation is plausible. You can’t resist as easily or strongly if you’re preoccupied with something, like parsing gibberish. In other matters, it would really, really suck if hover systems suddenly failed in the tower.
Alright, Lillith can still talk her way out of trouble. Too bad that trouble is exactly the path they’re on.
And the team now has the answer of what the tower from Viviana’s dream was. Not that that’ll help them.
“Let’s go blow up The Void!” 🙂
Lilith obviously lied with the spell on her.
Since Lilith is supposed to help destroy the shield to “the best of her ability”, there are two (obvious) possibilities :
– the spell does not prevent her to lie unless this does not change the “help to destroy the shield”, so this would mean her goal is *also* to destroy the shield (and after that… what will happen? If this happens?).
– because of her twisted mind, the spell only affects part of her personality (since she have some sort of multiple minds in multiple world lines that confuses the spell. One world line is following eldor’s orders, not the other).
In both cases she choose to be taken by Eldor. We still have to understand why this is “better” that leaving the Source room (they had 2 days to get away as far as possible from Eldor!)…
It may look like a tower from out here, but it’s voidier on the inside.
Alexander The 1st wrote:
Actually, he should have known about this. He’s possessed the body of Sandril. Sandril was there for this weird scene. As was Ryn and Alissa.
I suspect her plan has two phases. Phase one is to get them to “kill” Bhaal (or Gaia, depending on whether Eldor is deluded or not). Phase two is to wake up Sandril. As long as Eldor is able to possess bodies, even an attempt to kill him will just result in him jumping to a new host.But if she can get a host to reject him, the game ends.
@ Sekhmet:
Could also be that a more transparently honest answer could put up an obstacle in the way of destroying the shield. A caricature of the continuation might go something like this:
Eldor: I have so many questions that have to be answered before we go on with the shield-destroying business.
Lilith: No! Must destroy shield to the best of my ability!
@Samantha
We don’t know if Eldor has access to all of Sandril’s memories, but if Eldor does, he absolutely should know what the deal is with Lili’s “nonsense” sentence.
– OMG, it’s that sentence that was introduced nine years ago as a deep foreshadowing! What does it MEAN?
– Oh it’s just nonsense
@ Sekhmet:
I think that the “strict order” spell is exactly what it says in the tin: you obey the order given. For example, the lie doesn’t in any way hinder the attack on the barrier. Personally, I would not be surprised if Lili is, in fact, willing to destroy the shield. Her motivations are even more difficult to parse than Eldor’s, and both have crossed over to a morality regime of mauve and purple. The other youth don’t really have any better understanding of the things then we do. They can only trust Lili mostly because of their long-time friendship.
Samantha wrote:
Truth be told I do not expect there is a piece of red magic knowledge outside of Mythal that would offer suggestion on how to defend against Eldors soul transfer magic…
Sandril had unprecedented magical shielding on himself and it did not stop him either.
Thus I do not think there is something to stop.
I think we should all remember what Lilith said here: “…deceit my weapon.” I think she worded the spells very carefully. I think she has been playing Eldor since they were “stuck” in the source room. She needs him for something, and she’s playing along until then. She said she’d only obey him until the shield falls.
Grath wrote:
I misspoke. She only said she’d support his plan to the best of her ability. But that leaves her a LOT of room for her own plans.
@ Grath:
After all that I forgot to link to the comic I referenced. http://www.sandraandwoo.com/gaia/2020/02/11/the-door-015/
Grath wrote:
Amazing… That wording, that is. If Lili was somehow bound to preventing destroying the shield prior to the casting of the spell on her, isn’t her ability to support Eldor’s plan effectively nil? As in because she had promised to stop Eldor, she has no ability to support Eldor. In which case the spell, while technically cast and functional, is also ineffectual?
Countering magic by lawyering it… which in fact Lili has previously done, more or less, when she opened the box the Vivi wanted opened. Now which page was it… Ah yes, http://www.sandraandwoo.com/gaia/2014/06/20/the-letter-of-jael-bara-062/ .
@ Samantha:
My take on this is as follows: He certainly could look back through Sandril’s memories (well, I don’t know, could he? Seems kind of safe to assume ‘yes’, though, regardless), but he could always miss something and knows he’s fallible. On the other hand, he knows it can’t be an action taken to stop him destroying the source’s shield, so he’s probably just interested.
This is fun. This seems to be the controlled version Lili talking right now, if we’re still thinking about the bipartite mind, which would be the one other than the one who locked her in the room. We know Niko’s strict order works off of intentions, as confirmed by Novil. It seems reasonably likely that she would be compelled to tell him were she lying right now, which makes me suspect she’s probably telling the truth. It could well be a dodge of his command of her, but I feel Eldor would have phrased everything better had Niko’s strict order allowed command dodging so easily.
We can assume from the image from The Red Hall incident that whenever this was sent back in time comes after the source shield has been destroyed, since she appears to be outside in that image, which I doubt is an accident. Meaning I don’t think that she has any plans at the moment. Certainly not that would prevent Eldor from his current goal. And if she has plans for after that, well, she’d be entirely free to act then.
My guess is that this is planned by Lili after she’s free of Eldor’s control, and she just found a convenient time to send back that message to. I don’t know how this helps, though. One thing I could think of in theory would be that she’s already casting the strict order at that point, perhaps, but again, Eldor would be able to sense that. I can’t think of anything from those early scenes that would be useful here, though, unless future Lili is letting current Ilias know that time-travel is afoot here, and he should be ready. Maybe she’s even reminding him of that night. If they’re going to be interacting with souls, they might meet mentors and friends who died that day.
Alternatively, perhaps she went back in time to replace the word Bhaal, but I feel that’s unlikely. Everyone at the party noticed when she sent Bhaal back in time before, so Eldor would be sure to have noticed here (actually, not 100% true – we do know she’s capable of spells which avoid methods of bluestream detection from her attempts to escape prison, but I feel Eldor would have noticed). Or perhaps she’s planning in advance in a way which gets around the strict order. For a call back to that long ago, I feel like Novil would want it to be more than something to simply jar his mind, or a slight hint, but I could be wrong.
However, just one thought. Do we know of any times in the past when Ilias has been lost for words, because the ‘kill’ thing might not be something that’s going to happen in the future. Perhaps it might even be something Eldor’s already said to him, rather than something in the future (although I find that unlikely). Best of all, the whole ‘kill’ thing could just be a bait. Novil set this Bhaal thing up years in advance, and this was far more subtle than the ‘kill’ thing being mentioned in obvious preparation for this.
Here, Lilith actually reveals that she is familiar with the tower. Eldor don’t seems to be surprised, but being the suspicious type he is, I wonder why he does not ask “Have you seen it before?”. There is room for a lot of surprises in the remainder of the story.
dodo wrote:
Lili said that she thrust a “dagger into the arrow of time”. I suspect that Eldor’s spell won’t do what he expects.
@ OneTimeCommenter:
She’s also outright used deceit before as well‐-I think she’s right where she wants to be. Eldor planned so long for Vivi before entering the source room, she’s a formidable opponent. However, I think he was too focused on the wrong person. I think he’s underestimating Lili’s cunning severely.
Here is the last time we saw the tower –
http://www.sandraandwoo.com/gaia/2013/11/01/the-tower-in-the-sky-050/
DoublyNegative wrote:
I don’t think he can actually read Sandril’s memories – while we’ve only really seen Eldor in two bodies and not for very long, but there’s no aspect of conflicting minds or Eldor remembering something Sandril did, so I think the memory transfer is 100% override (After all, Eldor has a *lot* to remember he doesn’t want to lose.).
There’s a simple explanation to me – Eldor doesn’t seem perturbed by Lilith telling Sandril to get the sword and use it to stab Eldor…which would’ve been a pretty important memory to access right after being stabbed. Also, which shield spells he had been cast with.