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![[0565] The Life She Has Chosen](/comics/2014-03-20-0565-the-life-she-has-chosen.png "[0565] The Life She Has Chosen")
- Seeoahtlahmakaskay: Then I said to Reynard: “Look, you can’t simply–”
- Seeoahtlahmakaskay: —
- Seeoahtlahmakaskay: The bacchanal is that way.
- Butterfly: I’m now five years old. If I want to reach the summit of K2 while I’m fit, I mustn’t lose any time.
- Seeoahtlahmakaskay: But just think of all the kind and handsome males who’d like nothing better than to make you happy!
- Butterfly: I’m sorry.
- Butterfly: But this is the life I’ve chosen.
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@ Cirith:
True Seekay might be acting out of concern for her safety and all, but how many male characters in fiction in comparison are often told to abandon their dangerous career so that they can settle down with a nice woman?
@ Trigger:
I’m pretty sure that RWB isn’t against a female character abandoning career for family, but is merely opposed to said female abandoning career out of pressure.
@ Mindsword2:
You don’t need to be asexual to not want to settle down with somebody and have a family, or have sex with a stranger.
I suppose racoons do not pray “thy will be done”
Yay Butterfly! You do what is right for you. 🙂
@ Trigger:
Thank you… you saved me much trouble. with that.
@ Landbark:
Lol
*sees last panel*
*plays Luffy’s Fierce Attack*
@ Trigger:
I could have sworn I saw your name somewhere on YouTube. That avatar looks very familiar and the name.
@ Trigger:
I totally agree 100%
i dont know why but this is the first strip where ive thought butterfly is quite pretty. in the others shes had a butch vibe about her
@ RWB:
I agree.. another ‘female gives up active, successful lifelong dream for family despite odds’ story and i shall fling myself from a cliff. I hope the authors put a little more effort into her story than just throwing her to the males… I hope this isn’t another dumb cliche >.<
Yay! I’m sick of all the comics where the females are always incomplete or unhappy until they have kids. finally a strong female who doesn’t fit the stereotypes 🙂
@ Switch Master:
I go by MegaMan Trigger on YouTube, although my commenting is practically nonexistent now with the advent of mandatory Google+ linking.
Also, this downvote crap on straightforward thinking in this thread is absurd. Why are the “oh I hope this isn’t going to be another anti-female-equality message” comments getting the positive press here? Who in high holy hell actually thinks that a woman absolutely must abandon the role of mother in order to be considered equal? Respect the homemakers. In many ways they have it harder than the breadwinners. For the love of nonexistent deities, your chosen gender role is irrelevant to the perception of equality.
Just watch — if Butterfly does end up choosing the family route for any reason under the sun, there will be cries of foul play all around, because the modern “equality” advocate cannot comprehend a world wherein the choice to raise a family is just as respectable as is the choice to pursue a career.
If anything on this planet is sexist, it is the concept of a career somehow being more “equal” than a family. Women should have the right to pursue careers, but more than that, they ought to have the right to pursue families without being looked down on for it, as if they’re somehow less worthy for not breaking the mold.
@ Trigger:
I fully agree with what you’re saying here. My mother is an amazing woman, and the women who stay at home to raise kids should be able to do that if they want too.
What I dislike is how, in almost all comics, all the women settle down and have a family when not all women want one. I say equality is the ability to choose your own path, not be forced down one because of your gender, race or whatever 🙂
@ DragonHearts:
Agreed, but lately modern feminism has started thumbing its collective nose at any woman who voluntarily chooses a path that just so happens to align with common stereotypes, forgetting that it was the right to choose that was the original goal (one that’s been largely accomplished in the United States, by the way). Forcing a woman into a career because having a family is too much in line with cultural gender roles is no better than forcing her into having a family because of said gender roles, and it’s the outspoken element in this thread claiming that “Butterfly having a family now would be outright offensive” that I take significant issue with.
@ Trigger:
Ok, can you honestly give a direct quote of someone here who said or implied that being a housewife is a bad thing? Cause the thing is I agree that feminism does apply to both career oriented women and ones who decide to choose family over career.
The problem some of us have isn’t the possibility of Butterfly wanting to end her goal in favor of having a family, but is being painted in the wrong for wanting to continue her goal (evidenced by the sad expressions on both their faces).
@ Trigger:
Yeah I get that. I always say that I hate feminism, and then people are all ‘but you’re a girl, you should love it’. Feminism is a bunch of people telling women what to do, so is that not in itself patriarchy? Plus they act like all men are stupid and evil, but if I moan about how unfair that is I will not shut up! XD I don’t think it would be offensive for butterfly to have children, but I would be unhappy if she dropped all her dreams for it. Women who don’t want kids are really under represented in the media. I’m doing A level English literature currently and it drives me crazy how all the poems and novels are all about how its essential for a women to have a family, it makes people who don’t want kids feel like rubbish. And now people do think that a career is more important! It’s silly, we all have different values and they should be respected. Feminism sucks, equality and freedom is they way to go! 🙂
@ Trigger:
So what yer sayin is that starting a family should be equally acceptable just like a career. Hmmm I guess yer talking about how a family for women is like a demand rather than a choice and that it should be seen as a goal or desision. But it seems like you’re jumping back and forth here because you said the whole women should only foucus on family thing is wrong and sexist which I agree. But are you saying it’s up to the woman’s desision and society should respect that desision?
@ Switch Master:
I think he does mean what you said. Women, and men for that matter, should be able to have the life they want with no pressure from society to either break gender roles or conform to them.
@ Trigger:
Personally, I just want to see a woman firmly refusing family in favor of work because there are quite few stories of it, and even fewer where it means ignoring children (the only one I can remember is giving up a mediocre husband in return for a class full of children, and even then she WANTED both, the husband just wasn’t willing)
When we’ve got a variety, I’ll be fine with either as appropriate to the character, but I’m BORED of seeing women popping out child after child. Seeing families is so predictable!
I want to be impressed in stories, and Sandra and Woo is one of the few webcomics that occasionally DOES impress. I don’t want it to go back to the same story that everyone else tells, just with racoons.
If you don’t like women choosing careers, go watch just about every mainstream movie. You’ve got plenty of content made for your taste.
Let those of us who want to see the alternative have this one.
butterfly: this is the life ive chosen
like a BAMF
So I said to Reynard, “Look, you can’t simply walk into Mordor”
@ Luke:
this@ Luke:
this
Well, considering that miss Raccoon Goddess persevered in her coupling, she may just get her way and see butterfly mated.
……. BUT I WANNA SEE BUTTERFLY CLIMB K2 INSTEAD!!
LoL I’m just now seeing Woo and uh whatshername
…
what the heck is a bacchanal?
anyone know?
From her expression in the last panel, I’m not sure Butterfly is completely happy with her choosing.
@ cameron:
“A drunken or riotous celebration.” — Although in apparently also frequently includes licentious mating behaviour.
Wow. A broken heart in youth has turned her to literally turn away from the path her God has suggested. Such power one moment can contain.
Yeah her parents aren’t going to be happy, they can’t hold their grandkits
I do think that there are “other options” for Butterfly that would also be rewarding, other than just trying to find bigger and bigger cliffs. I do not, however, agree with Seo that that option should be a family. Maybe she should go into politics or advocacy or research or something instead.
My interpretation: Seeto may have a point (it might make her happier, and chasing ever higher mountains *will* end in failure) but is extremely over-controlling about it (think Amanda Wingfield). She is a very selfish deity, and regards her ‘coons as, to some degree, playthings (for example, the whole ‘I set your parents up’).
Butterfly is not going to do what Seeto suggests, regardless of whether she is making the ‘right’ choice or not.
I think Seeo has outsmarted herself. She basically bred for a climbing fanatic of a raccoon… then wonders why that result she wanted won’t give up climbing to pass on her genes. Tsk, tsk, Seeo.
Strange usually the next comic would be up by now.
@ JZ:
Holy crap! “JZ”?! Those are my initials! And I thought they were very rare!
This story arc has gone on WAY to long. I’m about to stop reading at this point. It’s Sandra and Woo, not the adventures of Butterfly. Let’s get the main characters BACK. *Yawn*
Lord Coyote wrote:
I don’t know. I mean the sad look on Butterfly’s face at the end seems to suggest that maybe she feels like she’s wrong for pursuing a goal over starting a family, but has gone too far to quite now.
Now if she made her statement with a smile, then I would agree that the strip is in favor of her plans, while Seekay’s suggestion is intended to be questionable.
@ Trigger:
Where are you getting the idea that feminism is opposed to women starting families? Sure, there’s a minority that think that, but the majority are fine with a woman choosing to start a family if it’s what she wants. The thing is, so far it doesn’t seem like that’s what Butterfly actually wants. People aren’t worried that Butterfly is going to choose to start a family, they’re worried about the message the story might be trying to send. So far, it seems like Butterfly WANTS to keep climbing, and Seeo is disappointed that she’s choosing her career/interests over a family.
If Butterfly said something like “Now that I’ve accomplished my dream, I think it’s time to settle down and start a family”, no one would have a problem with her starting a family. But if the moral of this story turns out to be that choosing a career over a family is wrong, then it’s the exact issue you’re complaining about of someone being told that their choice of how to live is wrong.
Let’s definitely trust the author and see where the story goes from here, but the last panel here just makes it seem like we’re supposed to be agreeing with Seeo, and that stance is what people are worried about.
@ Aerion Snowpaw:
I like how nowhere in this thread have I expressed a desire to see Butterfly take one route or the other. I’m merely playing devil’s advocate here, yet you feel compelled to put words in my mouth.
Half this thread wants to see Butterfly defy the norm merely for the sake of seeing her defy the norm, and at least one person has said that it would be “offensive” if she doesn’t. You cannot justify this rationally. Her decision is her decision, and it’s literally no one else’s business. That’s all I’ve been saying, but again, everyone seems determined to pin me down on one side or the other of this false dichotomy.
@ Beefcube:
Please note that I said “modern feminism”. I was deliberately avoiding “radfem” or “feminazi” or some other such slur, because it’s not my intent to stir the pot. (Real feminism these days is basically just humanism; the label more and more is applicable to the radical fringe.) The fact is that only recently has this concept of “women must defy the norm in order to be strong” arisen in any large or meaningful way, and I thoroughly despise that sentiment and anyone who supports it.
I understand the worry people have, but frankly, I find it very telling that more people jumped on the “oh my god it’s going to be anti-feminist” bandwagon than jumped on the “oh this is probably boiling down to a lesson about how relationships can actually further one’s goals instead of hindering them”. It’s not like Butterfly can’t have the best of both worlds, guys. Hell, given the following strip, it looks like it’s already headed in that direction.
@ The Watcher:
…
you people do relise that if you write ideas for a story here, that the author wont write it, right?
i mean, it wouldent make much sense, right?
@ Xezlec:
I feel the same way, too. Climbing is her life, and a family would make her have to quit that passion. However, I’m also an asexual (aromantic, as well), so I guess I just don’t get it either. 🙁 Still, I hope this doesn’t go the amatonormative “everyone needs a mate and a family to make them feel fulfilled!” route.
BTW, it’s nice to meet a fellow ace!
Ryu: The Wandering Warrior
ProTip : Shagging ain’t really that important.
Lord Coyote wrote:
I don’t know about “playthings”. “Children”, certainly, and she seems to have trouble with her children not being children. I think most of us know a parent who’s a bit too controlling about their kids, maybe even when those kids are grown up.
Incidentally, I’m thinking that she may have only started interacting with her children fairly recently. It was implied that in the past, she only showed herself to selected coons, with most not being in the VIC area, but now she’s interacting with them en mass. This might explain why she seems an inexperienced parent.
Also, I don’t think she looks sad because she thinks what she’s chosen is wrong or anything stupid like that, I think she just doesn’t like letting See-Kay down.
Also also, I notice a lot of people whining about Butterfly “giving up her dream” if she followed CK’s advice. Um, did you miss that she already realised her dream several strips ago? She then started looking for something new to try. Whichever she ends up doing it’s something new, and not her lifelong dream. CK suggested she try something different, while Butterfly basically said “I’m done with rock climbing to my satisfaction. I know! I’ll try mountain climbing instead!”
Interestingly, the people doing the whining seem to be completely ignoring the multiple people who have pointed out that this is a futile goal since raccoons aren’t built for high altitudes. Personally, I don’t care if she finds herself a mate, or finds something else realistic to aspire to, but if she persists at mountain climbing she’s heading for despair or death – or both.
she was between a rock and a hard place. she chose the rock
Aweee a shame but its her choice, so i respect it, still banging is very much fun to do XD
0000 is Reynard a gunnerkrigg court refrence?
WJS wrote:
Honestly the arc and the ending really doesn’t bother me so much. My only objection is merely this page making it seem like a tragedy if she didn’t have kits. Had it ended with Seeoahtlahmakaskay smirking while Butterfly made her quote with say a determined smile, I’d think nothing else of it.
So really I see it more as an okay idea that wasn’t as okay in execution.