- Dorothy Cambridge: The first thing you need to learn, girls, is that boys have absolutely nothing that you don’t have too!
- Larisa: But Cloud has a penis and I don’t.
- Dorothy Cambridge: Penises are just a social construct!
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 S&W in German/auf DeutschGaia (my fantasy comic) Scarlet (my science fantasy comic) |
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![[0597] Social Construct](/comics/2014-07-11-0597-social-construct.png "[0597] Social Construct")
[0597] Social Construct
└ posted on Friday, 11 July 2014, by Novil
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Wasn’t Sandy sitting immediately to Cloud’s right just a moment ago?
I think this will end in fire.
Rightfully so.
I am already annoyed by her…
HAHAHAHA! Oh my.
So a social construct that makes people? I thought it was the other way around.
Good job. You’re sure showing that strawm- I mean completely legitimate position – who’s boss.
@ Landbark:
She’s such a stereotype she’s almost a caricature.
Oh please, can we stop with this weird picking on a wrong stereotype of feminism and gender science?
If you want to engage the question whether gender is a social construct on an academic level, fine. But this is just mocking a non-existing strawman, most probably because the writer didn’t understand gender but of course know with his superior male intellect that this science is weird and wrong.
Oliver, you are destroying this comic. Stop that shit right now and get back to stuff that is actually funny and engaging.
-a hurt non-cisgender person
@ Natanji:
Do not you understand that every side has their own Loony members?
She’s wrong anyway. The genders have different genes, some different(ish) organs, etc.
@ Natanji:
I cannot even comprehend with you’re trying to say.
Jokes about others are funny as long as I can’t identify with them.
I’m still liking it.
@ WAFFLES:
Sex is not gender. You’re mixing the two up.
@ Natanji:
“Oh please, can we stop with this weird picking on a wrong stereotype of feminism and gender science?”
Except that this is a very existent group of feminists, as is the biphobes and the transphobes.
This portrayal is kind compared to the actual radical(extreme feminist).
“-a hurt non-cisgender person”
Nice to see you need to label yourself. Hi, I’m a non-cissexual feminist/egalitarian who is sick up to my ears with people who can’t take harmless jokes.
@ Natanji: Unless I’m mistaken, he’s probably using this as the stereotype many people have about feminists and is gradually going to show that such a person is in the extreme minority. In the end, he’s probably going to show how a feminist is simply a person who values the equality of both men and women as opposed to promoting one gender over another, and such logic will triumph over the steryotype of the “Fem-Nazi”. I hope that actually made a lick of sense.
Natanji wrote:
Always remember cartoonists: Making fun of extremists is *only* allowed if it’s an extremist of the political “right”.
I did one class on gender differences and one class on social construction last year (college). I am fairly certain that her use of social construction identification is horribly wrong (or she doesn’t understand that Larisa is being literal), and I am also certain that there are many differences between men and women (the class on gender differences centered on the structure of the brain).
@ Novil:
I wonder how many thumbs up you would get if this could be rated. My guess: at least 50.
Feminist like that make me want to slap them with my social construct.
In all honesty, my experiences with Feminism are pretty much accurate to the last 2 posts. I know its supposed to be about gender equality and equal treatment (as are most of the racial equality movements) but in the end they ALL end up like this. The minority extremist rant and rave and create a bad image all over for the rest of the group. I have been cornered and called a sexist pig before because I refused to to give a female more of a cut from the profits of a profit then the other male in the group. The reason, however, that he got the bigger cut was he not only did more work, he did most of the skill labor. She did some of the minor work, and about 20% of the skilled labor (mostly dealing with the recoding and over all SEO streamlining of the site) I do not pay by gender or race. You can take gender and race with me and shove it cause yours means nothing. I pay by skill and over all labor applied. Doesn’t matter if your male or female or a trans male/female. Do the work, get paid the equivalent dues. Do the majority of the work, you get the majority of the pay. End of story. Yet, I was blasted as a sexist for not giving her the majority of the pay for her minority of the work. The excuse was “Shes female so you dont feel you need to pay her” So before anyone bashes the comics for being inappropriate, or false, remember; there are many out there on both sides who expect above equal results for sub-equal actions. this so far is still a legitimate display of American Feminism. (I find European and even many Middle Eastern feminist movements far more “equal based” then the American one)
@ Shadow Serious:
When the only example of a position given in a piece of media is the loony version it’s the same as saying that that position is loony to begin with.
This story arc has potential – and, like one of the best things about Sandra and Woo, is a very unexpected theme for the strip.
I would coment more, but I am dealing with a Social Construct aching to go to the bathroom….
Shitstorm day 2. It’s starting to come down so thick you can’t take a breath without eating a mouthful. I think I saw a person thrown sky high by an updraft– or maybe it was just a strawman. I hope against all hope for our community’s safe passage through these times.
It’s worth noting that a large part of the joke is that there’s a huge number of people who fail to provide any organization to their argument and just forward something as being inevitably fantastic and excellent to everyone and everything. The problem is that people who are neutral or do not share those views require clarification and context for that argument in order to understand how and why that argument is true.
Larisa and Cloud’s reactions here are basically “wait, how does that work?” to which a nonsensical response is given. As cisgendered male and females, there is clearly a biological difference between the two characters (one has a penis, one does not). The fact that gender and sex are separated concepts is ignored, as is the fact that gender identity is a subject of intensive study and is changed based on societal norms. Instead, by jumping straight to “the X is a social construct!” without context or explanation, D. Cambridge makes what is potentially a very interesting/important/both topic completely ridiculous and utterly pointless. The humor is in the irony of the self-important “feminist educator” failing to educate in any way whatsoever and, in fact, causing harm to the idea of Feminism in general.
@ Novil:
I must commend you for this Novil, it is far too often in this absolute politically correct. Artificially Homogenized society society that for fear of being labelled intolerant, a bigot, an -ist of some kind or another, that artists/journalists/activists of all kinds fear to point out the absurdity on EITHER side of ANY charged debate, I have always thought (at times like this) of that speech from ST:TNG “When the first link in the chain is forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, it chains us all irrevocably.” What many people forget is that this idea of freedom applies to all no matter their beliefs (political or otherwise) Thank you for shining a light on this, even in humorous form, it still will spark debate and make people think, and THAT is truly what I believe ALL art/artists are really trying to do.
Just to push back a bit against the typical vocal minority that seems to creep out of the woodwork on these type of posts: Keep doing whatever you are doing and don’t listen to the extremists (at either end of the “debate”). I am confident that this arc will resolve in a reasonable way 😉
Okay..why am I being reminded of Linkara’s extended review of the comic book mini-series Amazon’s Attack?
I’ve never heard one go THAT far, but…
@ Natanji:
This isn’t a strawman. There are people who actually say this sort of thing.
Most of them are crazies on Tumblr who just want attention, but the extreme version of feminism is a scary place.
Hello!
First time commenter, but not a first time reader here!
I just want to say that these two last comics (and their comment sections) are just beautifully over-the-top! Keep on doing what you’re doing Novil and don’t mind the peanut gallery.
Personally, considering the authors’ stances on many other touchy subjects, I believe this arc will turn out very interesting. After all, Larisa is more of a feminist than Dorothy, and I think she (possibly alongside Sandra) will be the one to show the positive, reasonable side of feminism.
Long story short: Rock on, Oliver and Powree!
@ Natanji:
Oh, shut the fuck up. It’s a godamn webcomic, enjoy it, or get the fuck out.
Novil wrote:
You have no idea how right you are.
In the transcript, it says there’s a poster that says “CELEBRATE DIVERSITY”
…where??
I WANT TO SHARE THIS ON EVERYTHING!!!
One: It’s missing a comma. I am most unhappy “nothing that you don’t have, too”.
Two: Here come the SJWs. Gran an umbrella its going to be a shit storm.
Three: Oh god no return of Umbridge.
Four: COMMAS!
I want to laugh… I do… but I know people like that.
I think everyone who read this just learned a new name. Watch out for the deconstructors!
Another counter: ‘Yes and that’s a Lovely beard you’re sporting there, please enlighten us as to how many testosterone shots That took.’
Oh no, tumblr has been made flesh.
As a member of an extremist minority, I find it hilarious when other extremists/sympathizers lose the plot over even the slightest humorous depiction of their particular stance, I guess you would call it. How they fail to recognize human nature at it’s finest when they themselves only help to publicize it with their antics is beyond me..
On a more realistic note.. I can’t wait to see how the parent’s are going to take their kids being taught this drivel.. Cloud’s mother in particular..
@ Natanji:
“Non-existing strawman.”
First, the word is nonexistent. The strawman is being described, not performing an action.
Second, I guarantee you that people like this exist. More than once I’ve had to go ask a female coworker to wait a table because a feminist customer refused to be served by me. Apparently, I was somehow asserting my dominance over her by taking her order.
@ Matteoarts:
If this person is who I think it is, then no, they seriously can’t enjoy it. There was a strip a while back where Larisa caught a picture of Zoey and Michelle unintentionally posing like cavemen with a club, and this person got in a major row about how bullying bullies doesn’t solve anything. It’s not even like Larisa did anything with the picture! She just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and took advantage of the moment.
Either Natanji is a troll, or they have a throne made of soapboxes somewhere in their house.
Regarding all the fuss about the strawman, I didnt see many people complain about the stereotypical super Christian (I think Christian) mother. Cant pick and choose kids.
Okay, danger of comic going Sinfest is averted. I am 99% sure. Looks more like mocking the extremist. Which is good.
this is what happens when you hang out on 4chan too long.
The comments here are in part extremely sexist, and for calling people out on this I am suddenly labelled as an “extremist” by some, and told to “shut the fuck up” by another. How nice and civilized. One comments even describes sexual violence against women (“Feminist like that make me want to slap them with my social construct.”), but the makers of SaW are just letting it sit there. It’s nice how calling out sexism always leads to sexists pretty much willingly outing themselves for all the world to see. I still find it disgusting.
@ ExtraIntelligence:
I’m pretty sure this is the first time I am ever commenting on a SaW comic, so you are very mistaken. Also, the example you give has nothing to do with what is displayed in the comic.
@ RWB: “Harmless”, and who exactly gives you the authority to decide about the harmfulness or not? I stated my background because I can smell the “SJW” accusations already starting. I am speaking for myself, and how this hurts me, because otherwise I just *know* I will be accused of “white knighting” and all that other shit. I know how these discussions go online.
@ Neo: I still have an issue with this even if that’s what he’d want to do with this storyline. There are many, many people out there working very hard to explain difficult sociological concepts to others, including theories about how both sex and gender are social constructs. The way the author mocks these theories in his comic is by reusing “arguments” made by anti-feminists. It’s only natural for this to hurt people who have been mocked and hurt by anti-feminists with the same arguments over and over again.
The level on which these jokes work is by asserting something ridiculous that a layman might understand from the theories, and thereby dismissing the theories as bad before anyone even tried to understand them. It is akin to a creationist in the comic saying “so, if you really believe in evolution, how do you explain X?” and the evolutionist giving a really bad answer. To creationist readers, this will reinforce their opinion that evolutionists have a bad theory and should not be taken seriously.
The bottom line is that this comic just reads like yet another piece of convervative, masculinist literature. A shame.
This is all making me very nervous…but I love this webcomic, so I’m going to trust the creators and just buckle in and see where this goes.
@ Novil:
I applaud you for this. One should be able to poke fun at things and laugh without being accused of carrying an agenda or perpetuating stereotypes with intent to belittle others.
These strips are not an attack on feminism, or establishing a position of masculism, but are intended to be satire.
Natanji wrote:
“Harmless”, and who exactly gives you the authority to decide about the harmfulness or not? I stated my background because I can smell the “SJW” accusations already starting. I am speaking for myself, and how this hurts me, because otherwise I just *know* I will be accused of “white knighting” and all that other shit. I know how these discussions go online.
I love the blatant hypocrisy of this line of reasoning.
May I ask you the same damn question?
Just who in authority gave you the right to claim what is harmless and what is not yourself, and where may I send in my form of complaint to them?
You’ve done nothing but storm in here and make blatant accusations and biased reasoning over a web comic. I know that you’re free to make opinions and share them with the world, but if you foresaw all of this coming, then why?
Just because you HAVE opinions, doesn’t generally mean you SHOULD present them. Have you ever heard of the sentiment “He who argues with fools is the greatest fool of all?” – thereby it is better to sit in the shadows and be seen as quiet but wise then to prance around all willy-nilly with the same people you think are stupid.
Sometimes being quiet is more powerful than taking a stand.
Natanji wrote:
The bottom line is that this comic just reads like yet another piece of convervative, masculinist literature. A shame.
I also love how hypocritical this is too!
As if “MASCULINITY OH NOES” is something to be ashamed of when really, the same thing could be said about being feminine.
No really, what’s so great about being feminism over masculine? I am curious.
Why value one trait and not the other when we’re fighting for equality?
I’m trans* and a long time reader, and am on the fence on this series and will wait to see how it pans out, as it is much too early to be hurling accusations around. That said, I wouldn’t be unhappy to see a bit less warfare from the readers, especially anti-trans comments (Gee, making fun of transmen on testosterone, how apt and useful!) and throwing around the new favourite anti-equality term ‘SJW’. that said, there are extremists on all sides, and certainly plenty of people like those in the comic who are just over the top clueless.
This does, I think, settle any lingering doubts people had that Larisa might be trans*, though. 🙂
@ Jeremy K.:
In a subjective sense it is commonly accepted that if one feels emotion (i.e. sad, angry, offended, calm, puzzled, etc) from any medium of art – then yes, yes it is a “real fucking piece of art”.
Thank you for confirming what I, and others, already knew.