![[1017] Letter Of Complaint](/comics/2018-08-30-1017-letter-of-complaint.png "[1017] Letter Of Complaint")
I have posted the submissions placed 13 or lower of this year’s Gaia artwork contest:
- Letter: 28 August 2018
Dear Miss North,
We regret to inform you that we’ve grown tired of the current story arc. One reason for that is that it’s been running for almost four months now. Above all, however, we resent looking at pretty young girls in bikinis. That’s just yucky and ew!
We therefore feel compelled to limit the final table tennis match to 2 winning points and to introduce a strict dress code (see Annex A).
Your readers
KaxTax Bakejir Warwix
Nickel aludokoojul
Annexes
- Zoey: Can they do that?!
- Sandra: Sure. They’re readers. Their whims are our commands!
- Zoey: I can’t see the ball!
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Alright, at first I found this strip to be somewhat amusing, especially with the judge clearly being Taylor not as much because of the context, but simply because of the way she updates the score board.
But that was under the assumption that the people signed under the letter agreed to having their nicknames in the strip; either as actual commenters who agreed to play along, or as some Patrons who wanted to participate (I dunno).
When I read the comment section and it turned out the signers were actual commenters who had no say in it, I was greatly disappointed. Not agreeing with readers’ criticism is perfectly fine, but having actual people’s nicknames signed under a letter exaggerating their views (without their consent) is quite nasty and feels petty. Please don’t do things like that. u_u’
(just for the record, I don’t mind the arc as much myself – at this point I see the characters being themselves in beachwear, not really as a fanservice anymore – but I don’t think any commenter deserves treatment like that)
@ Alice:
What he said.
Yeah, this whole situation reminds me on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft4x8vM0748
@ Novil: Don’t you think it’ might be a little bit petty to call out people in a webcomic because they criticized you? I mean, I understand that you were frustrated, I was annoyed as well by all those comments about girls that wear bikinis at the pool and you have more reason than anybody else to be annoyed by this because you’re the one that puts by far the most time and energy into this comic, but don’t you think this might have been a little bit harsh? They are still people that come to your comic twice a week and even care enough to write a comment. It they didn’t care about the thing that you created, they wouldn’t brother writing comments.
@ all the complainers: don’t you think you overdid it a little bit by complaining that obviously other people leech after 13 year old girls. Many comments lacked any nuance, it’s no wonder that after such a long arc, Novil would get annoyed at some point.
@ all: Pleas try to be a little more nice to each other. Otherwise, we’ll just create hate and anger and everyone gets hurt. Nobody wants this.
That’s not cool, Novil. Calling people out in this way for giving criticism (on top of turning some of what they said into a strawman position), now matter how insulted you felt, is not cool.
You don’t work for us. We know this. You don’t have to point it out. Consider criticism carefully, because it may help you get better. Otherwise, it’s up to you whether you want to listen to it or not. So don’t blatantly mock your audience.
Novil:
I can appreciate the joke here. It’s a funny exaggeration which has been the staple of comics since there have been comics. I can also appreciate the point that you are the comic’s author and you are free to do with the comic whatever you like. If you wanted to, you could have all the characters (female, male, and even animal) show up for school wearing thong bikinis and that is your right as the writer… one I fully support and would defend against any and all detractors.
However I feel you cross a line when you start including real life people that are not celebrities (and thus have volunteered to give up their privacy for money) without their consent. This is the key point… consent. Consent is what differentiates an act of love from rape, security from totalitarianism, and a humorous homage from hurtful mocking derision.
I honestly think you should re-think the use of the names of commenters in this comic and re-caption it to change the names to ones not used by anybody… either that or use ones that give their consent.
For my own perspective, I think the current arc is funny. I do think it’s gone on a bit long, but not tediously long. (that I reserve for The Divine Comedy which I felt was probably one of your worst… partly because of its tedious length… but then it’s not MY comic, so I just take the bad with the good and keep coming back for more) I also don’t see an issue with the girls in bikinis because that’s authentic… even for early teens… I see it all the time. (even if I personally think bikinis are in poor taste and would never wear one myself, I don’t begrudge others their freedom to do so)
With that in mind, I for one would be OK if you used my name in the comic in place of one that does object… even though I don’t have the opinions stated in the letter. (in fact, the ones you should use are those that give consent for their use that explicitly disagree with the content… which would actually make it even funnier IMHO)
In the end, it’s your comic and whatever you do (even if nothing) won’t affect whether I come back in a few days to read the next comic. It will however affect my opinion of you as a writer… which you may or may not even care about until you cross a line at some point that WILL make me reconsider my viewership. (after all, why would I continue to read a comic I’m not enjoying because the writer is being a jerk to their readers?)
I’ve been reading this comic for a long time. I’ve always appreciated your willingness to engage with your fans, I took part in polls, I drew you a Woo coin, all of that. Honestly, I never thought you’d do something like this because it seems to go against what you’ve done for years now.
I’ve always respected your take on issues like young people discovering and coming to terms with their sexuality and childhood illness. From that, I thought you were a thoughtful and respectful individual. Sorry that it took so long to realize that that wasn’t the case.
From this strip, there are two ways I think I can see you now: Either you’re a 12-year old throwing a tantrum (in which case your comment on your characters being “pretty young girls in bikinis” isn’t creepy as hell, like it appears, because those are your words, not the fans you’re attacking) or you’re an adult who doesn’t care about slandering his audience for a cheap laugh. I’m sorry that it took too long for me to realize this.
I know you don’t care about losing your audience members, especially if they have criticism to give you, you’ve made that clear enough. I fully expect you to create some gross caricature of me sometime soon, perhaps a literal infant crying about you, because slander is apparently okay if you’re doing it to your fans and not the other way around. Go ahead. I know you don’t give a shit, but I won’t see it anyway.
Goodbye, Sandra and Woo, it was fun while it lasted.
Pffft xD
@ NewEraOutlaw:
Certainly not me.
I still think it’s a fun arc, and still believe bikinis and swimsuits are appropriate for a waterpark.
If you don’t like it, don’t read it!
Nobody is pointing a gun at your head and forcing you to read it.
@ Alice:
@ Red5:
@ RobertaME:
All of these. I never consented to any of this (can’t say for the other three but they’re probably the same) and I don’t think I would even if I was asked. Novil gets some amount of money from producing this comic (according to the patreon at least) and I don’t want my name to be used for that no matter how small the sum (especially without my consent). Although I’m not currently considering it, it might even be possible for me and the other 3 readers mentioned to take some kind of civil action over this.
As such, I implore Novil to apologise and remove this strip (#1017) or at the bare minimum, remove the name/s of myself and anyone else who does not give consent to having their name used in this fashion.
for fcks sake, wth is so bad about girls in bikinis?
In summer every female walks around in bikinis, so what is the problem?
I really don’t understand these discussions when some pervs try to objectify something that is completely normal.
About the callout, i’m not sure if it is a bit over the top.Although i didn’t even think these are real names, until one of them commented in here o.O
Uh, Novil, I worry that too few people got the joke. I bet you expected all of us to lewd the ankles of the girls, thus proving the point that any clothing can be lewd or not lewd, depending on the person who observes it. But I guess that got lost because you actually named the commentors. Kinda sad.
@ RobertaME:
Nice call! Novil, I give you the right to use my nickname (erejnion) in whatever fashion you want, to replace the offended guys in this strip, or for some future page.
NewEraOutlaw wrote:
I just figured he was going to see if he could get folks to start complaining that the bikinis were being overdressed. =p
Though I initially found it amusing, the comments changed my views. Unfortunately, this hasn’t been the first time this has happened in the duration of the comic. Novil has shown some bad manners in distasteful comics before and I may not think that this would be the last time he would do this.
I still think it’s silly to get offended by this, and exemplifies a certain character flaw, but I’d say it’s courteous to not use their nicks if they hate it so much. Even if they demonstrate here that they are willing to produce imaginary readings in order to be offended.
I scrambled some of the letters of the names used for the signatures.
The whole thing is obviously a joke. I have no bad feelings regarding these four people. In life, you sometimes have to deal with being the butt of a joke. It’s important to learn to not take everything so seriously.
I’m not a politician or journalist, but a cartoonist. I want to live in a world where I and our readers have a friendly relationship with each other. And friends tease each other once in a while.
Actually, I think that would be a worthwhile discussion, because both extremes are wrong:
On one hand side, we had the leftist “sexual revolution”, which demanded bikinis & nudism. Which was opposed by conservatives, who didn’t like that.
On the other hand, we now have burkas & scarfs & attacks on women, who don’t like to wear that, which, weirdly enough, is also supported by leftists, which suddenly think bikinis are “sexist”.
The truth is, of course, that the middle ground is right. It was right all along. And the “sexual revolution” and now the “sexism” are simply ideologically driven.
@ Arent:
Please don’t bring politics in here.
It’s just some pervs who objectified the girls in the comic for wearing bikinis, like every other girl in (almost) the whole world do during hot days.
Although. i think changing the names was a good idea and the right thing to do :]
Arent wrote:
To be fair, I think it’s really not objecting to the opposite sex wearing bikini, but more that some readers far above the age of the character are afraid of coming off as well child/teen predators for reading the strips in particular.
Oh nice, we are marching into MSPA territory again!
Damn, some people just can’t take a joke, eh? It’s quite amazing to see a crowd so easily offended, so lacking the ability to have a laugh at themselves, among the audience of a comedy comic strip. And seriously, you’re offended to the point of threatning civil action and demanding a removal of the strip? This is just pathetic and ridiculous. It’s a joke. Get over yourselves for heaven’s sake.
I implore you Novil, ignore those butthurt hysterics.
Titan wrote:
Most jokes about Islam are both.
Nickel wrote:
On this subject, I authorize you to speak for me, too.
No story arc is too long if it’s still funny, and this one has been funny throughout.
Nickel wrote:
Oh noes! Nickel is used as nickname by another reader!
Well, I don’t mean this Nickel. ’kay?
I knew the comment section is going to be fun for this strip. LOL! That being said, I kinda surprised that nobody is “offended” for the usage of burka or whatever the name of that clothes that cover everything. Usually when making a joke that target certain culture there’s always at least 1 person that is from the targeted culture and then commenting about how he/she is offended.
I guess everyone is busy crucifying Novil.
Why would someone get tired of any story arc at all? Are people eager to come back to the original plot, which doesn’t exist?
Jesus. Just enjoy the strips.
I’m a little worried that someone would follow this strip and wouldn’t be able to look at underaged girls in bikinis and don’t think of beach or swimming pool instead of sex. That’s kinda how I’m baffled by debates about public breast feeding.
In this oversexualized environment that is the internet, are people really following comics with talking raccoons to get aroused?
@ Brijeka Vervix:
Dude, seriously: chill. See this site and all these people commenting and all these drawings in panels and stuff? They’re not for or about you.
@ Fex:
Yes, we do follow this comic to get aroused. Unfortunately the usable material is scarce, but the ankles in today’s strip truly hit the spot!
@ Titan:
I’ll be pleased if it’s both.
@ Novil:
I expect to see in the next page an angry letter about using real nicknames, signed with “erejnion”.
puja wrote:
Antiyonder wrote:
Both fair points. My point is simply that both extremes go far.
As a guy I’m really happy with boxer shorts. They look great & I’m not running around completely naked. If I *were* a woman, I would probably prefer something similar. Maybe the stuff Luna is wearing.
Btw. I found the idea of Luna making out with three boys far more potentially offensive than the bikinis.
@ Novil:
Being the butt of a joke? Sure… Using my property in a comic that you’re actually making money from? Without my permission? Absolutely not man! You don’t allow people to use your comic for commercial purposes or to alter, transform, or build upon it. I wish you would show others the same respect and please apologise before remove my name from the strip completely, garbled or otherwise. This is NOT a joke and like it or not, it is, for me at least, a serious matter.
Fex wrote:
Yeah well that changes completely when the author includes your own name in a strip to demean and without even asking for permission first! And just changing it to ‘Bakejir Warwix’ (literally just jumbling a couple of letters around) does NOT fix it. Don’t you understand why I might be a little bit mad?
As for the 12 yr olds in bikinis, my actually complaint about it has been completely forgotten beneath the garbage that Novil put into my mouth. I’m pretty sure that my original complaints about them were actually how after several strips they were getting boring and I felt that the arc was using them as a crutch to try and remain interesting in place of actually jokes and what-not. Seriously! There was no ‘pretty girls = gross’ or ‘ewww pedos!’
Oh… ooooooooooh… oooooooooooohhhhhhhh !!!!!!!
That’s not gonna be taken well…
Hank Green from Vlogbrothers had an made a video a few weeks ago regarding the giant robot suits we ‘wear’ as part of our internet personas. Seems appropriate here.
https://youtu.be/ft4x8vM0748
Brijeka Vervix wrote:
Novil should simply ask the four people whether they feel honored or offended by being mentioned in the comic. If they are happy about it, their names stay, if not, they are “pixelated”, so no one can identify them.
Then this whole matter is resolved once & for all & Novil has again learned something about the deep, deep swamp that is called “public relations”.
@ MidoriLuna:
‘Crushed by a boulder’ describes how I feel about this whole thing. And apparently either my little robot suit shoots atom bombs (maybe I’m in Liberty Prime!) or Novil’s seemingly big robot suit doesn’t have very good armour…
Can’t we just delete the strip and never have to worry about this again?
@ Arent:
That works too I guess
Brijeka Vervix wrote:
Have you heard of the concept of humorous exaggeration? It’s a comic, for goodness’ sake. Lighten up.
Novil wrote:
I really do think that is for the best. It doesn’t detract from the humor at all and at the same time isn’t singling out specific commenters.
Very true. People can (and often are) a little over-sensitive these days. That having been said, while there is no mandate that you not address specific individuals in your comic, it can be considered in poor taste and mildly unethical from a position of you being a public figure (yep… you’re a public figure now!) and they being private citizens.
In the end the decision was yours to make of course, and I think most of your readers would have understood even if you’d done nothing… and it would have been in no way actionable libel because it’s obviously satire and it can be argued that anyone posting to the comments has given up their rights to assumption of privacy by the very act of making their name public in the first place… but I think being vague about the note’s “authors” is really for the best as it avoids any bad feelings all around.
Love the comic and you REALLY DO have a good wit and sense of satire. Hope you have nothing but successes going forward!
Brijeka Vervix wrote:
You’re of course free to look into it, but honestly, while it’s a bit unethical for Novil to use the name you post under in the comments, as I noted above it isn’t really actionable as it can be argued that you gave up your right to privacy (at least regarding the use of the name you put online) when you posted in the comments.
Try to see it from Novil’s perspective. He really felt it was just good-natured ribbing (and even referred to you as though you were a friend) and said he meant no harm. None of us should be so thin-skinned that we can’t take a joke at our expense or accept a reasonable explanation over a misunderstanding. Seriously… your name is no longer in the comic, so the issue is moot at this point. Just try and let bygones be bygones.
@ Brijeka Vervix:
Well, the flip side is that Novil doesn’t actually experience the benefit of the full suite of mechanized defense systems, when rocks are thrown it hits him personally, not the giant robo. So when we’re calling the comic out for patronizing to certain deviant sexual behavior, they may well be taking it personally, especially if that’s not what they’re trying to convey in the comic. Both sides have valid feelings about the issue, it’s just that the invisible giant robot tends to escalate things on the internet.
Gotta love a good exaggeration of certain issues, always makes for a fun joke. Unfortunate that the intent to poke a little fun came off as an attack (though I must admit I thought it might have been as well when I saw the people mentioned were actual commenters, glad I got to see Novil’s comment so that I could know the overall nature was the friendly ribbing I initially thought it was.)
Hope things can be resolved so that there’s no more hurt feelings :).
P.S. If you ever want a random comment section name to just use for stuff like this, feel free to use mine, I know worying about getting permission get be tough, so I figure having at least one pre approved name might be helpful if you ever need it 🙂
I’m a bit conflicted. I don’t have a problem with the bikinis, and in my opinion people who are bothered by the bikinis should be searching into themselves to figure out why it bothers them so much.
On the other hand, I’m not too pleased by the use of burqas to make fun of prudes.
@ratfox
I’m not sure there necessarily supposed to be burqas
All this aside, I’m looking forward to seeing where this arc is taking us
Hahahahaahahahaahhaa. That’s so great.
I miss the girls in bikinis.
Also, I thought the beach volleyball WAS the final match?
So…. not wanting to look at drawings of underage girls in skimpy clothing is… wrong? Man, all the cops I know are going to feel so embarrassed!
On a more serious note: I don’t mind this arc, and it has it’s fun points, but… it’s still teenage girls in bikinis, when I came for the raccoon and his girl, and their bildungsroman.
Yeah, dealing with readers complaining has never been Novil’s strong side. His usual strategy is “fan the flames”.
I mean, on the one hand, this arc HAS been going on for a pretty long time.
On the other hand, it’s not the worst arc ever, even if it is getting starting to get a little stale.
Titan wrote:
I think it’s about people who are stupid enough to pander to the whims of every self-important loudmouth who sees fit to complain about everything.