![[1017] Letter Of Complaint](/comics/2018-08-30-1017-letter-of-complaint.png "[1017] Letter Of Complaint")
I have posted the submissions placed 13 or lower of this year’s Gaia artwork contest:
- Letter: 28 August 2018
Dear Miss North,
We regret to inform you that we’ve grown tired of the current story arc. One reason for that is that it’s been running for almost four months now. Above all, however, we resent looking at pretty young girls in bikinis. That’s just yucky and ew!
We therefore feel compelled to limit the final table tennis match to 2 winning points and to introduce a strict dress code (see Annex A).
Your readers
KaxTax Bakejir Warwix
Nickel aludokoojul
Annexes
- Zoey: Can they do that?!
- Sandra: Sure. They’re readers. Their whims are our commands!
- Zoey: I can’t see the ball!
|
To be fair, these are underage girls in bikinis. Not really sexy unless they’re in the legal age area.
Goodbye Sandra and Woo wrote:
If he’s twelve, then it’s damn impressive that he’s been making these comics since he was two years old O.o
Ritch wrote:
I just checked, and no, it was never specified as such, nor were there any specifics given to how many disciplines the two had to contend against each other in.
Fex wrote:
Technically, this strip was about her.
RobertaME wrote:
…Uh oh O.o
Cobalt wrote:
Finally, the last name from the strip comments! …Who probably never knew his name was in the strip at all at this point O.o
As an inquisitor of Sith Empire I find the lack of sense of humor in the comments disturbing…
I didn’t think that girls in bikinis was such a big controversy until this comic. I see a lot of girls in bikinis on a beach every time – so I had no problem with art imitating life. I guess people who have issue with it should really look in the mirror first and foremost.
I also find taking offense at being called out inside a comic hilarious – one should take responsibility for what they post in comments after all. I would be proud, if not for being immortalized in fiction then for standing out with my views enough to get a nod.
I’ve enjoyed this arc, I’ve found it to just be simple fun. I don’t really care about the outfits, because they fit the current setting. Novil can do what he likes, and Zoey is a fun antagonist. I’d like to see a bit of story on the Zoey/Michelle front, since she found out her friend didn’t vote for her and all, but that’s just me.
What I do have to take a bit of umbrage with, is the amount of people on here talking about how they like subteen girls in bikinis. Like…that’s kinda weird people, stop wearing it like a badge of honor.
HKMaly wrote:
NOOOO!
Woo’s secret MUST COME OUT!
Well this looks like it went poorly
There are always people who get butthurt and overreact to everything, not getting the joke.
Also, see no reason why this strip should be removed or anything. It’s a good one and the joke gets across… well, at least for most people.
Deostades wrote:
The way I see it, people shouldn’t care. They’re underage, they’re not drawn in a sexualized way, so there is no more reason to be bothered by looking at them being in bikini than by looking at Woo being naked.
If people are uncomfortable looking at an underage girl in bikini, it’s not her fault; it’s their fault.
(Woo is naked… just saying…)
I like it. The fact that some people hate this so much that they comment about it makes it even better. I hope you won’t even aknowledge them.
Honestly, I haven’t had any problem with the arc, even the length. But being that I’m 36 myself (37 next year), I can’t really say it’s headscratching that some people close to my age range might be uncomfortable reading about a lengthy story or arc in this case where underage girls are in bikinis.
Arent wrote:Both fair points. My point is simply that both extremes go far.
As a guy I’m really happy with boxer shorts. They look great & I’m not running around completely naked. If I *were* a woman, I would probably prefer something similar. Maybe the stuff Luna is wearing.
Btw. I found the idea of Luna making out with three boys far more potentially offensive than the bikinis.
1. Well when it comes to drawn characters (namely say anime as a previous example) I’m still on the fence whether I think it’s problematic to have a lengthy story/episode/arc center around youths in say beach wear.
On the one hand they aren’t even real kids, though I’d say if there is an understandable reason to be uneasy it’s because they like fictional characters 18 and above have they tend to look very perfect compared to real people who have physical flaws present.
2. That said, yeah extremism on both sides are dumb. I mean getting on the critical commenters for being oversensitive/butthurt when the reaction to them isn’t too different.
I mean how is inferring someone to hold their tongue any better than telling Novil to remove this strip?
Heck besides the double standard, I’d think anyone who holds their opinion in high regards shouldn’t feel threatened by opposite/different opinions.
Fex wrote:
Let me put it another way. No, but say for example you might want to see what the new comic of Wednesday contains while at the library and someone catches sight of say the current arc.
Not really a problem with me as I usually check for updates either on my laptop, my dad’s computer or my recently new mobile phone (joined the 21st century a bit late).
But to the point yeah people tend to think that one over the age of 12 liking cartoons and such is weird, but that’s not really problematic. Thinking one is a child predator in the making is on the other hand a lot more damning.
Heck, some people apparently think that the only reason adult males even follow My Little Pony is to pick up children.
ratfox wrote:
The way I see it, people shouldn’t care. They’re underage, they’re not drawn in a sexualized way, so there is no more reason to be bothered by looking at them being in bikini than by looking at Woo being naked.
If people are uncomfortable looking at an underage girl in bikini, it’s not her fault; it’s their fault.
Ingvar wrote:
Personally I think only furless animals count as naked, but then that’s just splitting fur isn’t it?
Anyway going back to my earlier comment, they aren’t sexualized, but some might feel otherwise since they like other fictional characters they lack physical imperfection.
Besides, like any flaw, guilt (irrational or otherwise) is part of the human experience even for those who feel themselves above it.
I take offense at the fact that I have nothing else to take offense at!
I am sooo offended that…wait what am I upset about oh right great comic and lack of being offended
By funny jabs.
Harmphh.
Ok I’m good got it out.
Glad the author had fun with the negitive stuff though it’s better than the alternative.
Thanks for the comics.
Just my two cents here:
One, I have been enjoying this arc immensely thus far. It features my favorite character in the strip, and there are some legitimately funny moments here.
However, I’d have to agree that putting some of your readers’ names in the comic (jumbled or not) is in rather poor taste, especially since one can clearly deduce who is what just by perusing through the comments section. It may have been meant in jest, but it comes across as them being portrayed as the Anti-Fun Police, which is a huge problem because absolutely nobody likes a Social Justice Warrior.
I do also have to agree that the strip’s arc has been going on for rather long, but I hope that cooler heads prevail and the ending won’t be a total rushjob.
Disgusting that anyone would complain about a FREE comic. People are so entitled.
@ Silverwyrm:
Damn, even read that in Peridots voice.
Silverwyrm wrote:
Same could be said about complaining about comments that don’t cost any money to read. Mind you I like this arc, but it’s like I said a post ago, if you feel the need to shut down criticism, it’s a sign that you don’t hold your opinion in high regard.
@ NewEraOutlaw:
” but it comes across as them being portrayed as the Anti-Fun Police, which is a huge problem because absolutely nobody likes a Social Justice Warrior.”
The portrayal being more than comfortably accurate might have led to some of the embarrassment.
@ Novil:
Having had the opportunity to sleep on it – not as annoyed as I was last night and lending myself more towards the amused state I was torn between. Perhaps I should have made it more clear that I was torn between the two in my “not sure how to take this” remark.
I should also clarify as well – there are moments in this arc that I’ve enjoyed and others that I’ve at least chuckled at.
I’m also certainly not anywhere near the deep end with threatening legal action, regardless if a claim could be considered. Seriously? Folks, it’s a reference in a comic!
I intentionally posted under a pseudonym I don’t typically use online because I figured someone would get upset, I just didn’t think it would be in the comic!
It’s impossible for Novil to make every strip be funny to every viewer. So if you dislike the strip, maybe just chalk it up to a fluke of personal taste. That said I’ve enjoyed nearly every one of your strips Novil (and for the few strips that I didn’t, I’ve felt no need to complain about it)
OK everyone, let’s clarify some things:
While the inclusion of my name in this strip in such a fashion was inappropriate, immature and impolite and so on, that is not the reason I am pushing my removal from it so hard.
Rather, I am worried about the copyright and so on relating to Novil’s comic which includes that whatever he puts into his comic is owned by him and cannot be reproduced without referencing this site/him etc etc… and so on. It is possible that this might extend to my name and the names of the other three readers included essentially meaning that my name and by extension, the character behind it which I have developed for quite some time may be inadvertently stolen by Novil. I’m not even sure if he fully understands this given him telling me it’s only a joke but that is what his legal page seems to imply.
As such, there is absolutely no way that I can let this slide and why my name (including the garbled format) must be removed.
Novil
Novil
Novil
Novil
Novil
In accordance with the following extract from your ‘impressum’ (http://www.sandraandwoo.com/woode/impressum/ under the heading ‘copyright’ and translated into English)
“As far as the contents on this side were not created by the operator, the copyrights of third parties are considered. In particular contents of third parties are marked as such. If you should still be aware of a copyright infringement, we ask for a note. Upon notification of violations, we will remove such content immediately.”
I implore you to please immediately remove my name (including in garbled format) from this strip or else recognise it as third part content and acknowledge that you have no ownership over the term ‘Brijeka Vervix’ or any derivations thereof whatsoever.
@ Brett Bellmore:
Ok guys, I think we really need a “no commenting about the original complainers unless you’ve read and understood their complaints, which do not happen to be remotely what the comic is saying” rule. Go, read up and take your timeout, Brett…
Well. That escalated quickly.
I cant understand the critic here, let the artitsts just make their comic and it is good. in the end it is their work and they can do what they want.
This is discrimination…to the bikinis, who are these readers anyway? LOL
Lol, here in Germany this kind of strip would cause a racism debate… wait.
Don’t go getting all “politically correct” or letting a few fundamentalists change the way you think your web comic should go. Various groups have come to my country telling us we can’t use words like “Christmas” anymore because that word offends them… (that’s not what I think is happening here, I think you’re just poking at a hornets nest.) …If you have received an actual complaint, tell them to bugger on off, this is your house. Only your rules apply here.
PS: I’m with M. MM. Bring back the bikinis.
Razel wrote:
Oh my I completely forgot about that. Thanks, bro/sis!
@ M. Mitchell Marmel:
Don’t go getting all “politically correct” or letting a few fundamentalists change the way you think your web comic should go. Various groups have come to my country telling us we can’t use words like “Christmas” anymore because that word offends them… (that’s not what I think is happening here, I think you’re just poking at a hornets nest.) …If you have received an actual complaint, tell them to bugger on off, this is your house. Only your rules apply here.
PS: I’m with M. MM. Bring back the bikinis.
Oops… double posted that. apologies.
@ 7D4:
Nobody was doing any of that. The letter is a complete fabrication with the only truth being that 4 month long story arcs are boring (regarding the complaints).
I think that the joke of this comic is all in good fun. The last panel was sort of predictable, but all in all the joke put a smile on my face. And this and the smooching comic show that as a good cartoonist you know how to push buttons. XD
While the topic at hand is certainly a difficult one, as long as they’re just drawn characters I’m fine with them having fun in bikinis on the internet.
As for using user names: If they’re scrambled then it should be Fair Use. I know that that’s a USA thing, but it totally should exist in Germany as well. Also I consider it satire, and satire is allowed to do a LOT more than just reference internet nicknames, scrambled or not. I don’t even know who any of you are, and I don’t care either. And if I hadn’t read the comments, I wouldn’t even have realized that those were user names.
@ Alex:
Although this slander is completely unacceptable anyway and goes against Novil’s own comment rules, the real problem is how Novil’s copyright licensing could potentially mean that anything included within his comics become subject to his limitations on reposting elsewhere etc. As you can imagine, having this apply to your own OC would be an absolute nightmare, as such, I want either absolute recognition that my name, scrambled or otherwise is mine, not Novil’s, or for it to be removed from the strip completely.
Regardless of what happens, I will not accept any claim Novil may now have to my name.
@ Novil:
Hi Novil
Who ever said Germans didn’t have a sense of humour? :)) Thanks for the great, funny, daring, beautifully-drawn, FREE comic and don’t let the pursed lipped, disapproving Puritans/Calvinists get you down.
@ Brijeka Vervix:
Yah, I get that it was the author who put you on the line. But I don’t get why you’re upset, to the point of demanding stuff.
This is a joke, and a silly one. I can’t think of a webcomic with more of a friendly tone than Sandra and Woo (and I read A LOT of webcomics). You’re in the comic. I’d like to be in the comic. I’m sure a lot of us would like it too. Are you really that pissed off? Relax.
My comment about people aroused by this comic was not for you, sorry if it seemed that it was.
@ Shark:
“Technically” is a common term used for “it may seem like it, but not really”.
It was about complaints and readers and how the internet allows artists to interact with readers directly and making fun of them readers.
@ Antiyonder:
If people WANT to see malice in you actions, they will. By the same measure, if people want to see something sex related in girls in bikinis (or burqas, for that matter) playing table tennis, they will. None of this is our fault, though.
@Brijeka Vervix
He’s clearly not trying to steal your name or your character. It was a stupid joke about your complaints.
@ Fex:
@ Chillwinston89:
You’re missing the point. I’m sure that he doesn’t intend to actually steal my character but his copyright licensing could still potentially give him the potential to do so. It’s like a dormant volcano which I don’t want. I’d rather it be a decidedly extinct volcano.
Fex wrote:
Would you like to be in a comic wherein the only purpose for you being is public humiliation based upon slanderous falsifications as a result of you simply pointing out how excessively long an arc was getting? I wouldn’t. I mean, look at about half of the people in the comments now. Like this guy: @ Persia:
All because of this strip they ignorantly believe that I’m some kind of prudish feminazi muslim or whatever which I most certainly am not. It’s literally character assassination!
You’re within your rights to request your name be removed from the comic, but it’s not really a copyright violation unless you’ve actually trademarked the username with a governmental organization. It might meet the grounds of libel, but then you’d have to prove actual harm was done.
I think the key issue here is consent and whether consent is implied by posting in the comments section; I’m a patreon supporter as you can tell by my pretty blue border but that means that my name will appear over every comic at some point and tell people ‘This person approves and financially supports this comic’. That may not always be the case of course, I don’t agree with every comic and it’s not like I get to review comics before they’re posted *ahem*. But the point is that I have a choice in either supporting the comic or not, so does a commentor have that same right in that they can either post or not post?
Don’t get me wrong, I completely understand that having your name in a static image is different from a dynamic banner, but the principle concept of fair use is the same.
Brijeka Vervix wrote:
All because of this strip they ignorantly believe that I’m some kind of prudish feminazi muslim or whatever which I most certainly am not. It’s literally character assassination!
Ironically I think those trying too hard too defend Novil aren’t really as true a fan as they claim. I mean I normally don’t pull the “true fan” card, but if there’s any requirement I’d say it’s being able to enjoy something even if a few or more people dislike it or express anything less than pure praise for the product.
@Anyone being over sensitive about over sensitive critics: Yeah I understand taking issue with someone telling Novil to remove a comic or to threaten a lawsuit or considering one, but being dismissive of criticism (i.e.criticisms are bad, m’kay, so, if you do criticisms, you’re bad, m’kay, because criticisms are bad. they can hurt your body, m’kay, cause criticisms are bad, m’kay…) altogether shows a real lack of conviction.
Fex wrote:
@ Antiyonder:
If people WANT to see malice in you actions, they will. By the same measure, if people want to see something sex related in girls in bikinis (or burqas, for that matter) playing table tennis, they will. None of this is our fault, though.
Hope you’re not skimming or ignoring my comment now, but again while true, there’s a difference between regular weirdness or perversion and being a possible child predator. I’m not too worried since this comic for example isn’t the only thing on my search history and I don’t think the arc has been in bad taste, but again I think being afraid of being mistaken for the bold part is more damaging that the two in italics.
That said, yeah I don’t actually think Novil is into underage folks (but I’m probably asking for a sarcastic response now). Only thing I’d consider him guilty of is treating criticism as a buzz kill. If not demonstrate by his joke, then by being supportive of fans telling critics to screw off.
@ Brijeka Vervix:
Parody and satire are virtually nowhere protected like that. In my country he would not be obligated to do anything.
Especially when its based on what you wrote. In fact explicitly mocking some persons statements is standard satire.
( …ankles are still visible… )
I don’t usually come down to the comments, but this one drew me down and I don’t regret it.
@ Brijeka Vervix:
The idea of somebody accidentally stealing your copyright accidentally is honestly funnier than the comic (and I do appreciate the joke in the comic). What are you expecting Novil to do? Do you think he’s going to take you to court with an obviously spurious case for your character? If so, I’ve got some bad news: nothing you can do would prevent that, because nothing can make his case meaningfully more spurious than it already would be.
Brijeka Vervix wrote:
OK, THIS is a valid argument. Taking someone else’s copyrighted material and claiming it as your own is a legally actionable infringement. If Brijeka Vervix has used that name in any other venue where a copyright notice exists that the name and the content it appears with are retained by the author, then Novil would in fact of law be in violation.
In the US, such use is not infringing due to the fact that it is done in parody, thus no claim is being made over the copyrighted material. (i.e. the name) However German copyright law is considerably more complex. (keeping in mind I’m not a lawyer and my German is VERY rusty… especially trying to read German legalese… blech! :^Þ )
However, my understanding after reading the German court cases involving copyright infringement is that the name, by virtue of having been scrambled, is no longer a potential point of infringement. Novil has met the legal definition of “differentiation” by scrambling the letters. He cannot claim any usage of the name “Brijeka Vervix”… only over the name “Bakejir Warwix”, so no infringement exists.
Bottom Line: Brijeka Vervix – You’re fine from a legal point of view. Novil can’t claim your name and his usage of your name in scrambled format is consistent with German doctrine of “freie Benutzung” (free utilization) as parody. (see BGH, March 11, 1993, 1994 GRUR 206, 1993 ZUM 534; the Alcolix and companion Asterix Persiflagen cases)
Gen315 wrote:
Absolutely disgusting!
MidoriLuna wrote:
Actually, that is incorrect. This wouldn’t be a Trademark issue. So long as her name is posted ANYWHERE with a legal copyright notice it’s protected under German copyright law, not Trademark law.
Copyrights need not be registered anywhere to be legally binding… only that they be published somewhere. (keep in mind this is German law we’re dealing with… not US law in which names are not subject to copyright)
That having been said, read my previous comment regarding German doctrine of “freie Benutzung”… it is not infringement nor libel due to legally provable differentiation for the purpose of parody which in German law is protected free expression under Grundgesetz art. 5.
I approve of this wardrobe change.
I for one have NOT been interested in seeing a bunch of children in swimsuits.